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Thread: The perpetual question: Minimax v. Hammer, does it really just come down to price?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Minimax has that.
    I can't see where they do for the FS30, certainly for the FS41. For the disbelievers, sorry I can't do anything about your doubts as you have never used it.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  2. #47
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    It’s on the FS41 ES. Don’t know about the others.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Lee View Post
    I think this comes down to this:
    SCM is more of production machine, I am not sure about North America, but where I am, you will not find people who owns and runs furniture manufacturing business with a number of employees will come online and share about how beautiful their SCM worked and all, its just keep on working, hence not a lot of review, but a lot of 30-40 years old SCM machines came out of closed down business/owner retiring but not many second hand Felder.

    There was a furniture maker who closed down recently and not too far from where I am, the business has full SCM machines, ranging from 50 yo to 5 months old.

    But for Felder, it is a different story. people who buys Felder are professional hobbyist who often has a full time job(lawyer, accountant...etc) and enjoys woodworking or have a semi production shop. therefore you will find flood of reviews. I have a full time job that is not related to woodworking, I know a lawyer who doesnt live too far away from me also owns a number of Felder/Hammer machines.
    I get this line of reasoning. I came to woodworking through the hobbyist path. What I've learned has been self taught or online. I've never worked with a professional woodworker.

    But in my profession, as an electrician, I learned most everything from the journeymen I worked and the jobs I worked on. I've worked mostly commercial jobs and the vast majority of tools and materials I worked with you will never see in a home. Even residential electric contractors would never use many of those tools. What I consider professional tools for the electrician probably would never cross the mind of the non-professional.

    Felder came across my radar through forums. And their website is very intuitive and informative. You won't see that on Greenlee or Enerpac websites because they are not catering to the individual.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    If it weren't for Sam, they would have no marketing at all.
    The thing about Sam is he is passionate about the machines and he actually uses them to make a living. He will talk all day about machines (especially bandsaws) simply because he loves and appreciates them. He is a rare bird in sales.

    Felder does a far better job with their website than SCM does. It produces a "better" selling environment for most hobbyists. Just the fact you can get prices on their site makes it more conducive to hobbyist sales. At least you can get MM prices for some machines on their dealer sites.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  5. #50
    You won't go wrong with either machine but anyone who says that they are equivalent is not giving you good advice. Own either and get on with your woodworking, good practices will yield great results. But make no mistake SCM has their own foundry and their machines have heavier castings and longer tables. Silent cutterhead? What does that even matter? Would you use your machine without hearing protection? Tersa vs segmented cutting block, and what we have both is a tomato, tomahto thing. I have chosen MM twice and for me it has been the right choice. These machines do not add precision to your woodworking, you do. Felder/Hammer marketing is really about hype in my opinion.

  6. #51
    Most of us on the forum probably have no opportunity to compare Minimax to Hammer machines, we have to rely on forums such as this one, and what we read on websites. I have had the opportunity to see a full size SCMI slider, but never used it, talked to the guy who did, he said the main reason they bought the machine was for safety. He did say that any service on the saw was hugely expensive.

  7. #52
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    Check with whatever manufacturer you are considering and see if there is a list of prior customers who are willing to let you come to their shop and check out these machines in person. Nothing like hands-on touchy-feely to get a better idea of what you want. And a real-life opinion from a user, not just a salesperson.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Wilkins View Post
    Check with whatever manufacturer you are considering and see if there is a list of prior customers who are willing to let you come to their shop and check out these machines in person. Nothing like hands-on touchy-feely to get a better idea of what you want. And a real-life opinion from a user, not just a salesperson.
    I agree with this and it's very common for both Felder and SCM/Minimax to help with that. I've had quite a few visitors over the years in to see my gear before they finalized their own choices. Even if the machine or machines local to you are not the exact thing you are looking at, being able to see machinery from your considered brand and speak with an actual owner is a really good thing.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I agree with this and it's very common for both Felder and SCM/Minimax to help with that. I've had quite a few visitors over the years in to see my gear before they finalized their own choices. Even if the machine or machines local to you are not the exact thing you are looking at, being able to see machinery from your considered brand and speak with an actual owner is a really good thing.
    Yes, this is a great suggestion. I've had dozens of people over for shop visits.

    The benefit is that you get a customers perspective on the machinery, sales, service, parts and support provided by the manufacturer.

    With machines in these classes you're not going to find that the machine won't perform, you'll get to hear how well, or how poorly the vendor solved any of the onwer's concerns, and how good their long term support of you was........Rod.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Yes, this is a great suggestion. I've had dozens of people over for shop visits.

    The benefit is that you get a customers perspective on the machinery, sales, service, parts and support provided by the manufacturer.

    With machines in these classes you're not going to find that the machine won't perform, you'll get to hear how well, or how poorly the vendor solved any of the onwer's concerns, and how good their long term support of you was........Rod.
    The Felder reps have called me numberous times post sale, post delivery, to inquire about machine setup and the pallet situation. Can’t ask for more. In fact while talking to Tim in DE this morning I went ahead and ordered an extension and bracket for the planer outfeed.

  11. #56
    I have the rare privilege of being able to say I have used both, and rather extensively at that. Since IÂ’m out of the biz, my 2-cents. Accept or reject as you like:

    -If the price were the same, IÂ’d take an MM any day of the week.

    -If I couldnÂ’t afford an MM, I would get the Hammer and probably be happy with it. It certainly will be a huge step up from what the average hobbyist is used to using.

    -If you had a chance to use an FS30 and A3-31 for a month and had to send one back at the end, youÂ’d send back the A3-31.

    -SCM GroupÂ’s marketing and sales strategy in the US is terrible which, unfortunately, paints a negative image in the eyes of many prospective customers. Felder understands their customer base and has fantastic marketing and sales material.

    -EVERY manufacturer has owners with horror stories. Just like every manufacturer has way more happy owners that probably never post on the internet. 75% of my customers with Felder or MM were never on the internet to begin with.

    -DonÂ’t get hung up on doo-dads like digital readouts or table extensions. At least not to the point of going with one brand over another. There are plenty of aftermarket options out there if you arenÂ’t hung up on staying OEM. Buy the machine, not the bells and whistles.

    -Buy from who you feel the most comfortable dealing with. You WILL have questions after the sale. Personally, I would prefer to talk with a company representative who actually has woodworking experience, uses the machines themselves, etc. Sam Blasco walks the walk and if you are in the US, that alone would tip my scale.

    -Lastly, accept the fact that you will probably buy based upon emotion, then come up with “facts” to defend your decision afterward. Never forget that no matter how helpful this or that rep is, both SCM Group and Felder are sales-driven companies and that’s the bottom line. So, buy what you think will make you most happy.

    Erik

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    I thought the perpetual question was Ginger or Marianne.
    Samantha or Jeannie.

    Really, there is no wrong choice.

  13. #58
    having either around would make moving machinery so much easier

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    having either around would make moving machinery so much easier
    Yeah, because all your buddies would drop everything to come over and help!

  15. #60
    wasnt thinking that at all, now im wondering what is wrong with me, geez I hope im not oh never mind, one nod of the head or wiggle of the nose and no Lift truck needed and presto right in the basement all wired up.

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