The perpetual question: Minimax v. Hammer, does it really just come down to price?

[Greg Parrish]

So I finally chose the MM FS30c. I placed the order with Sam and should be seeing the details on lead time tomorrow. Thanks everyone.

Congrats! Know you are going to be thrilled to get it.

What were the deciding factors? It looks like it has a longer bed and much longer bed. Just curious.

[Jim Becker]

Forrest makes a dado stack that fits a Felder slider, though it isn't cheap.

Yes, that's true. I was only saying that in the "pro" column for the SCM/Minimax, a "standard" 5/8" bore (or 1" bore) blade or stack is usable. Felder's arbor system isn't a "con", either...it's just different.

[Jim Becker]

So I finally chose the MM FS30c. I placed the order with Sam and should be seeing the details on lead time tomorrow. Thanks everyone.

Congratulations! You'll enjoy having a nice J/P at your disposal in your shop.

[Jeff Ranck]

Congrats! Know you are going to be thrilled to get it.

What were the deciding factors? It looks like it has a longer bed and much longer bed. Just curious.

You know, in the end I think it came down to the time Sam spent answering all my questions. I like the longer beds (although Hammer has those extensions). I do loose 10mm in working width, but the MM has a thinner working thickness. Although only a little thinner, (1/8" for the MM vs. 3/16 for the Hammer - or whatever the metric equivalent is), in my past experience, I tend to use thinner rather than wider. One reason I stuck with a lunchbox so long. They tend to have thinner working thicknesses than floor machines.

In any event, I don't think I could have made a bad choice.

The one interesting thing about making this choice that was clear to me is that there is a lot of great information (both from Felder and from owners) about the Hammer. There is much less information on the MM, to the point that several of the videos they link to on their site do not exist any more. Thus, it is tough to find information on some of the details on how the machine works or is built. I expect that SCM is loosing sales because of the difficulty in having clear information available. Sorry, but a sales brochure with little information just wasn't enough for me. Fortunately, Sam was patient in answering all my questions.

[Greg Parrish]

You know, in the end I think it came down to the time Sam spent answering all my questions. I like the longer beds (although Hammer has those extensions). I do loose 10mm in working width, but the MM has a thinner working thickness. Although only a little thinner, (1/8" for the MM vs. 3/16 for the Hammer - or whatever the metric equivalent is), in my past experience, I tend to use thinner rather than wider. One reason I stuck with a lunchbox so long. They tend to have thinner working thicknesses than floor machines.

In any event, I don't think I could have made a bad choice.

The one interesting thing about making this choice that was clear to me is that there is a lot of great information (both from Felder and from owners) about the Hammer. There is much less information on the MM, to the point that several of the videos they link to on their site do not exist any more. Thus, it is tough to find information on some of the details on how the machine works or is built. I expect that SCM is loosing sales because of the difficulty in having clear information available. Sorry, but a sales brochure with little information just wasn't enough for me. Fortunately, Sam was patient in answering all my questions.

Makes sense and and honestly I didn’t even think about planing thinness when deciding. I ended up deciding ultimately based on price with the silent head since I work in a neighborhood garage. However, I was thinking my drum sander would fill the bill for thin stock now so I guess that will be the case going forward too.

Thanks for for sharing and hope you enjoy it. Mine is on a truck headed to me today according to my email.

[David Kumm]

Join the MM yahoo group. Both MM and Felder have good groups who know what they are talking about and very objective about the good and bad of the machines. I'm on both and often machine issues are solved within the group before resolved by the companies. Neither are bashful about telling you what they like and dislike about any machine. Dave

[Brian Holcombe]

David, could you provide a link to those groups? I've had trouble finding them.

I've dealt with both Felder and SCM on service and both companies were expedient, helpful and went over and above (in my opinion). I had the motor brake fail on the minimax J/P and a new motor was sent to me, from Italy. It was at least reassuring that they were willing to make it right and do so quickly.

Felder helped me recently ordering parts for the mortiser conversion on the FD-250. There was an original mix-up to the specific parts, but once I contacted them a second time and said I felt that something wasn't right about the parts list they went into action. One of the service reps dug through the stock room until he found the missing parts, then shipped them out to me. I think that is pretty awesome, in most cases I can't imagine that happening.

I had to do the physical work in the first case, and do a bit of research in the second case but after all was said and done I think it worked out nicely and both certainly get positive marks from me.

[Patrick Kane]

The high quality videos Felder puts out are effective. A few of them convinced me I wanted to give a saw/shaper combo a go, and while I didnt buy new from them, it did lead to me choosing a felder. It helps they are entertaining as well. Quality production making some simple project.

[Albert Lee]

You know, in the end I think it came down to the time Sam spent answering all my questions. I like the longer beds (although Hammer has those extensions). I do loose 10mm in working width, but the MM has a thinner working thickness. Although only a little thinner, (1/8" for the MM vs. 3/16 for the Hammer - or whatever the metric equivalent is), in my past experience, I tend to use thinner rather than wider. One reason I stuck with a lunchbox so long. They tend to have thinner working thicknesses than floor machines.

In any event, I don't think I could have made a bad choice.

The one interesting thing about making this choice that was clear to me is that there is a lot of great information (both from Felder and from owners) about the Hammer. There is much less information on the MM, to the point that several of the videos they link to on their site do not exist any more. Thus, it is tough to find information on some of the details on how the machine works or is built. I expect that SCM is loosing sales because of the difficulty in having clear information available. Sorry, but a sales brochure with little information just wasn't enough for me. Fortunately, Sam was patient in answering all my questions.

I think this comes down to this:
SCM is more of production machine, I am not sure about North America, but where I am, you will not find people who owns and runs furniture manufacturing business with a number of employees will come online and share about how beautiful their SCM worked and all, its just keep on working, hence not a lot of review, but a lot of 30-40 years old SCM machines came out of closed down business/owner retiring but not many second hand Felder.

There was a furniture maker who closed down recently and not too far from where I am, the business has full SCM machines, ranging from 50 yo to 5 months old.

But for Felder, it is a different story. people who buys Felder are professional hobbyist who often has a full time job(lawyer, accountant...etc) and enjoys woodworking or have a semi production shop. therefore you will find flood of reviews. I have a full time job that is not related to woodworking, I know a lawyer who doesnt live too far away from me also owns a number of Felder/Hammer machines.

[David Kumm]

Minimax is the forgotten stepchild of SCM here in the US. If it weren't for Sam, they would have no marketing at all. Good machines though. Felder gets who its market is and targets them. I remember when they had only one series and were really a niche player. Now they market all levels of machinery. Moving downward really fueled their growth and gave them the ability to move up as well. I think their 700 series used to be their bread and butter but now it is the Hammer line. Felder used to be a big step up compared to hobby machines but now the step up is into the 900 and Format series. Dave

[Jim Becker]

MiniMax has been re-integrated into the SCM "classical tools" lineup and isn't really "separate" anymore like it was when I was buying my machines. With time passing...come changes. No disagreement about Sam's value, however.

[Chris Parks]

At this level of machinery it is a Chev/Ford thing minus one small but important part. The Hammer has a height/thickness indicator in the winding handle that is absolutely repeatable and accurate where the MM does not have the same facility. It is an accessory but could be regarded as essential in my book because it is simply the cream on top of a very good machine. If the MM had the same then the choice is truly line ball with CS as the decider.

[Brian Holcombe]

Minimax has that.

[Joe Jensen]

Search this forum for threads on support for SCMI and support for Felder. One guy Rick Fisher bought a new SCMI 24" bandsaw. Shipped with a broken part, he couldn't get any help from SCMI, and he ended up having a local shop fabricate a replacement. A few weeks into owning it the something electrical failed. Again no response from SCMI so he just paid a local motor shop to fix it. He has Griggio and a Martin planer and Martin sliding saw. He really likes Martin but the planer is like $28K. Search the forum. For me support is important after the sale. Lots of posts here.

[Warren Lake]

I thought the perpetual question was Ginger or Marianne. I wouldn't choose a machine over and another for a readout gauge. I asked here once when you set your gauge on a Hammer or Felder to what you want then measure both sides of say a 12" wide board with a caliper what do you get, no one answered. From what Ive seen machines are not exactly the same minor difference from side to side but still not the same so much for a gauge. I use a caliper and know what have on both sides.

Of 100 or so shops that have gone to dust not too far away I can remember seeing one Felder Machine. Bogden and Gross in Hanover had a shaper and power feeder. I remember that because almost all the shops had 1 1/4 tooling or larger but that one was 30 MM I think. Bigger will work with bushings but can complicate things. Ive seen more SCM likely than all the others added together. Id have to go through photos of the shops but its always there and fair bit of it. Never seen a Martin in any of those shops and many were the top shops in or around Toronto some 50 plus year businesses with 50-80 or more employees. Baurle and other German machines though and maybe three Wadkin if that.