Contributor
Most people don't use Latin either. And for a large percentage of the people who do, it's mostly as a way to make their jobs look harder (i.e. more valuable) to outside observers.Originally Posted by Bob Glenn
The real value of algebra is that it is a vaccine against chronic innumeracy. Part of the higher math it introduces is probability/statistics, which is almost as good as Latin for sliding nonsense past people who don't understand it.
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
Contributor
And that is math (algebra, calculus, trig, et al,) in a nutshell... to reduce a problem to nothing more than an arithmetic solution.
Comments made here are my own and, according to my children, do not reflect the opinions of any other person... anywhere, anytime.
Contributor
Hey!, I resemble that remark! My degree is in educational statistics & measurement...
Comments made here are my own and, according to my children, do not reflect the opinions of any other person... anywhere, anytime.
Contributor
Just because it's good doesn't mean it can't be misused.
(I have a MS in math, BTW)
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
Moderator
Hmm.. "a large percentage"? Sounds like statistics.
I don't use latin, but I know several who do, one reason is to read things written in Latin. (None, AFAIK, converse in Latin.) Then there are others I know - one friend (age 17) can converse in seven languages, one speaks AND reads nine, one four - languages must be as easy to them as "Veni, vidi, vici"!
It's refreshing to know there are brilliant people everywhere. One good friend started university at age 13 and graduated number one in her class. An older friend holds 14 patents. A young nephew raised thousands for travel by performing piano concerts while in high school.
Funny thing, those I know with minds like that never seem to feel the need to impress anyone.
JKJ
Contributor
I'd go with rarely, rather than never. I work every day with top-drawer scientists and physicians. Most of them (19 of 20, I would guess) don't feel the need to impress anyone. I suspect that's for two reasons: one, the more you know, and the more you are able to understand and manipulate the world through symbolic tools, the more you will generally be aware of the limitations of your knowledge and those tools; two, they know people respect their knowledge and skills because the world comes to them every day for their help.
But there is the odd one who can't help but beat the world over the head with their mastery. Not surprisingly, most of that lot are surgeons. Surgery seems not to breed humility.
[OP]
Member
Sorry, Brett, all due respect, but I'm not buying it.
Life's too short to use old sandpaper.
Member
Also, people who are experts in a field such as medicine know that there is a lot that is not yet known and that there are very few certainties in the field. Knowing that even though you are an expert, you can and will be wrong with some regularity, tends to be humbling enough to prevent a lot of arrogance.
Surgeons have much less uncertainty in their practice than do physicians who practice in primarily cognitive fields. A risk-stratified patient with known cholelithiasis on ultrasound going to a surgeon to laparoscopically remove their stone-filled gallbladder is a very straightforward case and one can perform that very well-defined mechanical task with a high degree of success. The CMS RVRBS also heavily reimburses physicians who touch patients with sharp objects and pays those who do not very little, so the surgeons feel both mastery of their task and reward for doing their work and get arrogant. Contrast that to internists, family physicians, and others in "cognitive specialties" who mainly bill off of E&M codes and not procedure codes and get paid a small fraction of what surgeons make, try to diagnose new patients with vague, ill-defined symptoms, and their MBA employers are largely replacing them with midlevels who do much of their extremely limited training online. That breeds demoralization, not arrogance.But there is the odd one who can't help but beat the world over the head with their mastery. Not surprisingly, most of that lot are surgeons. Surgery seems not to breed humility.
Also, medical training leads to a lot of self-selection. People who are repulsed by arrogance stay away from surgery, and those who enjoy the one-upsmanship gladly go into surgery.
Moderator
Like you, I detect a calm confidence instead in the sciences and technical fields. During my 30 years at a national research lab I worked and associated with many dozens if not hundreds of highly educated and intellegent people. It was rare to meet someone obviously trying to impress.
Just once, that I can remember - I met a young neighbor's dad who said he also worked at the lab. When I asked him about his area of interest he answered "I'm a PHD scientist." From that I suspected he felt under-appreciated, disliked his field, or was missing something in his life.
JKJ
Member
I suppose that can't be helped, then. The great thing about beating your head against a wall: it feels so much better when you stop.
Brett
Peters Creek, Alaska
Man is a tool-using animal. Nowhere do you find him without tools; without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all. — Thomas Carlyle (1795-1881)
Moderator
Beautiful formatting Brett! Hand-coded HTML or WYSIWYG editor?
Your example reminded me of software I wrote long ago to pack a number of arbitrary shapes into other arbitrary shapes, e.g. for wood interest consider inputting a cut list and fitting it efficiently into either sheets goods or arbitrary sized boards, maintaining a specified grain orientation, working around defects, and maintaining kerf widths and allowing for surfacing waste. It's been a long time so I forget the details but you can bet your bippy I used a bit o' algebra. Good clean fun!
For those unfamiliar, when developing software the use of constants for anything is rare. The math (simple algebra, matrix algebra, calculus, etc.) is the easy part, normally done on paper first - the computer does nothing but dumb arithmetic. The logic and "bookkeeping" usually need far more thought than the math.
JKJ
[OP]
Member
I know what you mean. Lots of beating going on here. I don't remember a thread this long. Must be a sensitive subject. (pun intended)
Life's too short to use old sandpaper.
Contributor
You need to get out more.
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....wforge-release has 1768 posts, but I'm not even sure that's the record here.
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
Contributor
I enjoyed math in school and excelled in algebra thru calculus. I discovered my daughter had little aptitude in math, and just could not grasp algebra. She was very talented in literature and communication skills, but much less in math. She had multiple tutors and just could not grasp the concepts. The problem for many is that algebra is used in high school as prerequisite to head to college, and if you don't have the ability and you want to go to college, you suffer. Knowledge is a wonderful thing. Algebra can be fun and useful for some. For others it is useless and/or painful, or worse, a roadblock in life. Schools must understand the diverse nature of human intelligence ( athletic, social, musical, verbal, artistic, mathematical, etc ) and support students in pursuing their goals and working through or around obstacles.
Moderator
My younger daughter grasps math through calculus very well...except for geometry for some reason. And maps...geography. Go figure...
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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