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Thread: DC through wall into dumpster..

  1. #1

    DC through wall into dumpster..

    We have a small (4,500) sqft shop and are upgrading our dust collection system dramatically this month. Right now we have a Grizzly 2HP that gets rolled around to tools as they're used. Obviously this is a gigantic pain and completely unsustainable. So we need to add a DC for the entire shop and we're just overwhelmed with all of the information. We know that we DO NOT want to collector into bags or barrels because we'd be paying guys to empty the containers many times a day and that's just bad business. We have a large dumpster right outside the shop and we're thinking that we might just put the exhaust of the blower straight into the dumpster. We aren't worried about return air because the large garage doors are always open when we're working, and we have no combustible devices so no need to worry about CO. We have the following equipment:

    3HP cabinet saw
    5HP cabinet saw
    Jointer (Spiral cutter)
    3 shapers
    20" planer (Spiral cutter)
    Drum sander
    Edge sander
    3 miter saws
    Line boring machine

    I have read all of the literature on sizing the pipe correctly based on equipment use, and that's no problem. I guess my questions are:

    1. Is exhausting directly into a roll off an OK plan?
    2. We don't need any sort of cyclone nor filters if we go this route, correct?
    3. If we can go this route, where should we buy the blower? Oneida only sells theirs with their cyclones, I believe.
    4. Is there a better option? Our floor space is tight so we really need a solution that doesn't take up a ton of room. At the same time, we are only going to be in this shop for, at most, another year, so we want to do this as cheaply as possible.

    Advice, tips, comments, are all appreciated. We are in a tight spot right now between trying to keep up with projects while still maintaining a clean shop, so I really need to get this decided and taken care of asap.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    You say that you have a "small shop" of 4500 square feet. That's roughly 50 x 90. That is not small - - or at least in my own perspective. And you mention that floor space is tight. hmm... a little surprising given that you don't have all that much equipment.

    Exhausting a DC directly into a roll off? I think the problem that you'll have is that unless you have some sort of separator (like a Thien baffle or O'neida cyclone), that you'll be pulling shavings through your dust collector. That'll plug it up within a minute from your jointer or shaper. So, maybe a Super Dust Deputy dumping into the roll off would be better. But, the "bottom" of the cyclone needs to be sealed and not allowed to suck in air - - otherwise it won't work. Perhaps that is what you were planning - - although you didn't explain that.

    I use a separator and then exhaust the rest of the stuff outside. Works well. Roughly 98% is caught and only a small fraction goes into the wind.

    2 HP seems a little low for what you're trying to do, especially if more than one piece of equipment is running at the same time.

    I suspect that you'll get a bunch of additional advice. I'll stand by.
    Last edited by Brice Rogers; 08-27-2018 at 2:46 AM.

  3. #3
    I can't link to it but there is at least one discussion of the subject on Woodweb entitled "distributing dust and shavings in a long bin" that will give you some ideas. The hard part is avoiding a dusty mess around the dumpster which may require a more elaborate setup than you are considering.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    If it would work for your building/location you might consider putting a cyclone outside, apparently a common practice based on some I've seen on larger installations. Dump the sawdust and chips into a large bin and exhaust what's left into the air. It can be loud, a problem if you have neighbors. Some people have built an enclosure on the outside wall and built a muffler for the exhaust (the source of much of the noise).

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    So, maybe a Super Dust Deputy dumping into the roll off would be better. But, the "bottom" of the cyclone needs to be sealed and not allowed to suck in air - - otherwise it won't work. Perhaps that is what you were planning - - although you didn't explain that.
    Coming off a cyclone requires a sealed container or a "gate" type mechanism that cycles material without breaking seal.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    You say that you have a "small shop" of 4500 square feet. That's roughly 50 x 90. That is not small - - or at least in my own perspective. And you mention that floor space is tight. hmm... a little surprising given that you don't have all that much equipment.
    Small compared to other commercial shops. Cramped because we have a LOT of sheet goods and lumber stored and we have non dust producing machines like clamping tables..

    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    Exhausting a DC directly into a roll off? I think the problem that you'll have is that unless you have some sort of separator (like a Thien baffle or O'neida cyclone), that you'll be pulling shavings through your dust collector. That'll plug it up within a minute from your jointer or shaper. So, maybe a Super Dust Deputy dumping into the roll off would be better. But, the "bottom" of the cyclone needs to be sealed and not allowed to suck in air - - otherwise it won't work. Perhaps that is what you were planning - - although you didn't explain that.

    I use a separator and then exhaust the rest of the stuff outside. Works well. Roughly 98% is caught and only a small fraction goes into the wind.
    I'm kind of winging it here. This is our first foray into larger style dust collection and I'm exploring the options and trying to nail down a solution. My thought was to just design the system so that the blowers blow directly into the roll off, bypassing the need for separators...maybe that idea is a bad one, that's why I'm here
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    2 HP seems a little low for what you're trying to do, especially if more than one piece of equipment is running at the same time.
    2HP is our current mobile dust collector that gets rolled to individual stations as needed. It is getting replaced with something much beefier, as soon as I figure out what that something is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    I can't link to it but there is at least one discussion of the subject on Woodweb entitled "distributing dust and shavings in a long bin" that will give you some ideas. The hard part is avoiding a dusty mess around the dumpster which may require a more elaborate setup than you are considering.
    Thanks, there were some interesting ideas in there, but all were a little more involved than we want right now with the size of our shop.

    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    If it would work for your building/location you might consider putting a cyclone outside, apparently a common practice based on some I've seen on larger installations. Dump the sawdust and chips into a large bin and exhaust what's left into the air. It can be loud, a problem if you have neighbors. Some people have built an enclosure on the outside wall and built a muffler for the exhaust (the source of much of the noise).
    Interesting. How will we get our dust and chips from the cyclone into the 40 yard dumpster, though? If I just drop it straight out the bottom, through an airlock, we're going to have a huge pile at one end of the container.

    Thanks everyone for your input and advice so far. Hopefully we can get this figured out soon!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    Exhausting a DC directly into a roll off? I think the problem that you'll have is that unless you have some sort of separator (like a Thien baffle or O'neida cyclone), that you'll be pulling shavings through your dust collector. That'll plug it up within a minute from your jointer or shaper. .
    I don't think so - even the big 4-bag style DC's have the "dirty" air going through the blower before going into the bags.

    OP, I think your proposal sounds fine. No need for a cyclone or separator if you don't have filters to keep clean. No need for filters if you can exhaust outside (and your neighbor situation is such that you don't mind a little dust "leakage").

    As to where to buy a blower: have you looked on craigslist? I see bigger DC's for sale, occasionally - no reason you couldn't scrap the bag rings, etc.
    Last edited by Dan Friedrichs; 08-27-2018 at 9:27 AM.

  8. #8
    Thanks for the input on my original plan. I was/am really worried about spending a ton of money on this only to have it not work at all....and I really didn't want to invest in a cyclone and then the airlock and then possibly a secondary blower to blow it all out..

    We have no neighbor issues, so no worries about sound or leaky dust. I just want to get it all and shove it into a big box.

    I monitor craigslist but in our area, I rarely see anything good pop up. We're probably going to have to go new for that reason.

  9. #9
    The only problem I see with blowing chips and dust directly into a dumpster is trying to contain them within the dumpster. With a cyclone, the chips fall gently into the drum. But the force of the DC blower directed into a dumpster would probably blow a lot of debris up out of the dumpster and into the air.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Hmm...I wonder if the solution (Keeping in mind we're doing this as cheaply and as temporarily as possible) would be to just strap down a tarp over the container while it's in use? Though I wonder how we'd be able to efficiently spread the debris throughout the dumpster if we did that.

  11. #11
    How big of a dumpster will you be using? Let's say it's 20-30 yards. You could make a cheap wood frame with plastic stapled to it that could be easily lifted or removed for part of the dumpster. At the end opposite the DC input you could make a frame with screen mesh stapled to it. They could all be easily removed and with the screen at the opposite end of the DC input, it might help move the debris around enough and reduce the need to do it manually.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty View Post
    How big of a dumpster will you be using? Let's say it's 20-30 yards. You could make a cheap wood frame with plastic stapled to it that could be easily lifted or removed for part of the dumpster. At the end opposite the DC input you could make a frame with screen mesh stapled to it. They could all be easily removed and with the screen at the opposite end of the DC input, it might help move the debris around enough and reduce the need to do it manually.
    20 yard right now but it's looking like we'll need to upgrade to at least a 30 next month. I don't know that I'm understanding your idea, but it sounds promising. Can you explain your idea differently or sketch it out for me? It sounds like you're suggesting to partition off the container, but I don't understand the benefits of that, but I'd love to know them!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Cackler View Post
    1. Is exhausting directly into a roll off an OK plan?
    2. We don't need any sort of cyclone nor filters if we go this route, correct?
    3. If we can go this route, where should we buy the blower? Oneida only sells theirs with their cyclones, I believe.
    4. Is there a better option? Our floor space is tight so we really need a solution that doesn't take up a ton of room. At the same time, we are only going to be in this shop for, at most, another year, so we want to do this as cheaply as possible.

    Advice, tips, comments, are all appreciated. We are in a tight spot right now between trying to keep up with projects while still maintaining a clean shop, so I really need to get this decided and taken care of asap.

    Thanks!
    Yes, you can directly exhaust into a bin. No, you don't use cyclone or filters.

    Cincinnati Fan and Extrema sell blowers but they are not cheap! It might be cheaper to just see if Clear Vue or Oneida would sell you a blower.

    I ended up scavenged the blower off a used bag unit.

    You would probably need a 5+ HP unit. You could try to find a used one, auctions, or check Ebay.
    Last edited by Robert Engel; 08-27-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    I have a 3000 gallon steel tank right behind my shop and my 1.5HP dust collector exhaust blows directly into the tank. No bags, no cyclone and no filters. The DC sits on the floor in the corner inside of my shop and the four inch PVC exhaust pipe is only about four feet long to the tank. My tank has an open top and surprisingly enough the dust and chips stay in the tank. I work alone so I rarely use more then one machine at a time. Many people from SawMill Creek have been to my shop and seen my DC system and how well it works, mostly when I run my CNC Router.

    My first chip box was a four by four by eight foot plywood box with a top and I used baby diapers as filters to cover the vent holes. This system worked well for many years until the plywood disintegrated

    I expect that your dumpster idea will be even better then mine since you have a built-in means of emptying the dumpster.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    I have a 3000 gallon steel tank right behind my shop and my 1.5HP dust collector exhaust blows directly into the tank. No bags, no cyclone and no filters. The DC sits on the floor in the corner inside of my shop and the four inch PVC exhaust pipe is only about four feet long to the tank. My tank has an open top and surprisingly enough the dust and chips stay in the tank. I work alone so I rarely use more then one machine at a time. Many people from SawMill Creek have been to my shop and seen my DC system and how well it works, mostly when I run my CNC Router.

    My first chip box was a four by four by eight foot plywood box with a top and I used baby diapers as filters to cover the vent holes. This system worked well for many years until the plywood disintegrated

    I expect that your dumpster idea will be even better then mine since you have a built-in means of emptying the dumpster.
    Hey Keith. Is your tank vertical or horizontal? My big hangup now (That I know I can blow directly into the container) is how can I effectively spread the chips throughout the container? If I had a vertical container it'd be pretty easy, but with a long dumpster, it seems to me like it'll be problematic since sawdust and chips don't really want to spread out...

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Engel
    Cincinnati Fan and Extrema sell blowers but they are not cheap! It might be cheaper to just see if Clear Vue or Oneida would sell you a blower.
    I will contact Clearvue or Oneida after I calculate our HP requirements. Even if I end up having to buy an expensive blower new, it's still going to be cheaper than implementing a cyclone system with airlock, so I'll still consider it a win.

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