Squares are ....square

[William Chain]

So, after getting rather disgusted by and tired of the volume of sellouts on social media that have gone from informative content and furniture, and you know, woodwork, to mindless photos of sponsor's red measuring tools ranging from squares to absurd compasses (see thread in off topic forum if you like), I decided to run an experiment. I borrowed (I refuse to buy) one of the red company's 8 inch squares from a friend. I then purchased a square from each borg store (~$8 each, one is empire, one is husky), one from a super cheap import company (~$6, pittsburgh, but with coupon it was free!), a Starrett, and some speed squares from all of the above. Speed squares ranged from free to $6.

I then aligned these tools with the super expensive guaranteed to 0.001" square and used a flashlight to detect any gaps as a measure of squareness. Quick, dirty experiment, but hey if there's light, there's a measurable gap. With the exception of one speed square which was a rather rough surface (casting? cheapo sand blasting?) guess what? All of the above are square.

I upped the ante a bit. I slapped down a 4x8 sheet of plywood (3/4in BB), verified that the sheet was square (measuring tape), verified that the 4' length was straight, applied all the squares to one corner and concluded the edges were perpendicular, and applied the squares to strike a line. I carefully extended these lines to the opposite side using a drywall square, and then collected some measurements, both with a Starrett ruler and tape measure by eye, and by throwing down my aluminum tracksaw track and measuring again by the same method. All lines (save one, the rough finish speed square) struck in this fashion deviated from one another by less than 1/16" over the full 8' length of the sheet.

So... I think we can conclude that the $8 measuring and squaring tools will provide dutiful service, and that the hype is just hype. Discuss.

[Tom M King]

I've somehow managed to make a good living, for 45 years now, without ever investing in what is considered an expensive square. I do have a number of Starrett squares, left to me by a dear friend, but the one I carry in my tool belt is a stainless steel bladed Craftsman combination square. I do check squares in the store before I walk out with any that I buy. If I'm remembering correctly, after 15 years or so, that Craftsman was the only one hanging on the peg that worked smoothly enough to suit me, even though they all checked out to be square.

I might be a fool, but am not easily parted from my money.

[Simon MacGowen]

I know what you re saying. I was less lucky than your experience.

I have precision squares (USA), empire aluminum square, Starrett combo square, unnamed combo square, engineer's squares, etc. I used a kinex machinist square (0.00055" tolerance) to check them. Heck none of them seemed to be square!

What should I do? Go out and get a made in USA red square? Of course, not. I continue to woodwork the same way as I have.

Those fancy tools ($150 a piece; $250 a piece,...) are as good as how their owners feel about them. If they love them after paying top dollars, good for them.

I drive a nice car; a lot of car owners would say I am a sucker who is willing to spend that kind of money on a box with four wheels, and theirs take them to where they want just like my car. May be I am, but I just feel good when I drive my car.

Simon

[Matthew Hills]

Main issue I’ve seen is irregularity in aluminum speed squares taking them out of square. That was annoying. (Got some cheap plastic speedsquares from Lowe’s for cub scouts, and those have worked well)

Some of the starretts are super nice for legibility.

Matt

[Steve Jenkins]

If your aluminum or plastic speed square is out of square just put it on your table saw making sure the miter gauge is accurately set to 90 and trim a tad off the edge. You can do the same at 45.

[Tom M King]

I've built stuff for a living for 45 years now, and never used a speed square for anything. I always carry a combination square though, if I have a tool belt on.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have several very accurate squares that I use to set up my machines.
I don’t use them to measure wood so they don’t live out on my bench where things get knocked around.
It’s good to have at least one good square to use as a reference.
Unless your work doesn’t require it.

[Cary Falk]

Why doesn't measuring equipment from Starrett, Mitutoyo, Bridge City Tool works, Brown and Sharpe, Pec, incra, etc draw the same hate? Is it the red cape causing the bull to charge sort of thing? I have things from several names on the list I mentioned. I also have a Borg supplied square I build fences and decks with.

[glenn bradley]

So... I think we can conclude that the $8 measuring and squaring tools will provide dutiful service, and that the hype is just hype. Discuss.

I question the definition of "hype". A Toyota Carolla and a BMW M5 both use gas, move under their own power and will get you from point A to point B. Does this make the M5 "hype" because it does the same thing the Carolla does? I have a $30 plane that works every bit as well as a Lie Nielsen. Is the LN more elegant and more refined? Certainly. Does my $30 Millers Falls work fine? Certainly. If I were a machinist, would I notice the difference between a Starrett and an Empire measuring tool . .. oh yes.

[johnny means]

Why doesn't measuring equipment from Starrett, Mitutoyo, Bridge City Tool works, Brown and Sharpe, Pec, incra, etc draw the same hate? Is it the red cape causing the bull to charge sort of thing? I have things from several names on the list I mentioned. I also have a Borg supplied square I build fences and decks with.

I think using the machinist brands onin a woodshop or install site is also pretty unnecessary. I see a lot of talk about feel, fit, and finish, but never any measurable improvement in results. I think of these things as the chrome tipped exhaust of woodworking, no real need, but who doesn't like a little bling.

[William Chain]

I've built stuff for a living for 45 years now, and never used a speed square for anything. I always carry a combination square though, if I have a tool belt on.

I hope I was clear enough, if not I apologize. I tested combinations squares and speed squares. Good results with both, with the exception of one pretty crunchy tool.

I've somehow managed to make a good living, for 45 years now, without ever investing in what is considered an expensive square.

And that's my main point. It's patently absurd to convey to people that one needs to blow $140 on those tools to do this work (particularly when they *cough cough* didn't either). It's a chair or a table or a nightstand, whatever. Made of wood that moves with every 1% change in humidity. It isn't the space shuttle. The inexpensive tool does the job. My data is proof positive of that.

The way I see it is that $140 fancy pants square....that $140 is my QSWO for my next Stickley replica.

[Van Huskey]

Why doesn't measuring equipment from Starrett, Mitutoyo, Bridge City Tool works, Brown and Sharpe, Pec, incra, etc draw the same hate? Is it the red cape causing the bull to charge sort of thing? I have things from several names on the list I mentioned. I also have a Borg supplied square I build fences and decks with.

In very general terms "the red bird" starting getting hate when they started the one time tool deal. I have a few Woodpeckers measuring devices and absolutely love my Delve square.

It is unlikely many or any of us have seen a measuring device truly square over its length, if we have it was a one in a million luck thing. It all comes down to "square enough" and that depends on your medium, your designs/type of work and your expectations of the finished product and so everyone is different. I tend to buy moderately expensive measuring tools because when I use my cheap ones I find myself double and triple checking because I just dont' trust them, even if they were square/accurate yesterday. Not all the time but often 16 3/64" needs to be 16 3/64" and 90* needs to be darn near perfectly 90*.

[David Kumm]

I have a lamb Tool Works square for setting up my slider and the crosscut fence. It is higher precision than a normal square and worth the price to me. A crosscut fence that produces a 1/16" error over 8' seems to always compound and never offset. Either boxes fit together or you fiddle with them and there are a few tools I'll pay for to reduce the hobby stress. An accurate 24" square and a flat straightedge of at least 7' are two that are worth it. Dave

PS To be fair, I also think a Range Rover is worth the price so I may not be normal.

[johnny means]

I don't think square is the right tool for setting up a slider, unless one owns a 6' square. You'd get better results with three sticks and a pencil.

[Cary Falk]

In very general terms "the red bird" starting getting hate when they started the one time tool deal. I have a few Woodpeckers measuring devices and absolutely love my Delve square.

It is unlikely many or any of us have seen a measuring device truly square over its length, if we have it was a one in a million luck thing. It all comes down to "square enough" and that depends on your medium, your designs/type of work and your expectations of the finished product and so everyone is different. I tend to buy moderately expensive measuring tools because when I use my cheap ones I find myself double and triple checking because I just dont' trust them, even if they were square/accurate yesterday. Not all the time but often 16 3/64" needs to be 16 3/64" and 90* needs to be darn near perfectly 90*.

I agree that some of the one time tools are out there and I don't buy them if they are of no use to me. I don't see the same hate for large expensive sliders that hobbyist buy for example. I have gone through a rash of bad squares. I was always fighting square until I stepped up to better measurement equipment(several names on my previous lists.)