Opinons or experience with HOVARTER vise?

[Brian Hale]

The latest project is nearing completion and i'll have some time for shop upgrades, namely a joinery bench that's been bouncing around my head for the past many months. My current main bench is 36x104x34 high which works great for hand planing but sawing and chopping require to much bending over so i'm going with something taller, perhaps 42" high.

I've had my eye on the Hovarter face vise for some time but, aside from a few build/install videos, i'm not finding many reviews.

https://www.hovartercustomvise.com/p...-hardware-kit/

What i like is the quick action open/close and the one handed, 1/4 turn to clamp. The 25" capacity and not having to protect the work piece from screws are also a plus. I'm not seeing any drawbacks which leaves me wondering what i may be missing.

My second choice would be the Veritas twin screw vise.

Brian

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I was ready to buy the Hovarter vise. I love the simplicity of it, and the ease at which you can move it out and in, then clamp. The one thing that caused me to not buy it is that I wrote to Mr. Hovarter and asked about putting dog holes outside of the "screw" (whatever you call it when it's not actually a screw) and he said that it depends on pressure on the mechanism to work, and that a dog hole off center might affect that. To be clear, he said MIGHT. I don't want to discredit him. It may work, but for me, there were limits to where I could put dog holes and I needed them to be outboard the screw by a few inches. If I were adding a wagon vise, there would be no question- I would get the Hovarter. I feel the Hovarter mechanism is perfect for a wagon vise- no need to screw it all the way out- just push it to the workpiece and clamp.

By the way, I went with the Lie-Nielsen twin screw, and it is a huge pain in the rear to make the chop because the tolerances are very tight. My first attempt the mortice was a tiny frog's hair off and it caused the screw to bind. I was able to fix that with a Felpro gasket between the receiver and the bench top, which actually was too thick, and so I enlarged the hole in the bench very slightly to make the screw not bind. Next, the holes in the chop were a very slight bit off from the holes in the bench. I have yet to figure how this happened because I could not have been more careful with my measurement. I drilled the holes in the bench first, and then clamped the chop to the bench and used the forstner bit to make a center mark on the vise chop, and then drilled the holes for the chop. I honestly think it may have been wood movement because I can't possibly figure out any other way those holes were off!!! I checked, double-checked, and then checked and double-checked again before drilling. I'm to the point now where I am probably just going to make another chop. When I say they were off, I mean the tiniest bit, but with the way it's designed, you have to drill a step hole for the bronze bushing and the bearing and washers. There is a three-step hole on the back, and a two-step hole on the front. It all has to line up. Even with a drill press, it's easy to get a tiny bit off.

To be fair, I absolutely love the way the Lie-Nielsen parts are made, but I really am having trouble making this chop. Also to be fair, I'm not doing a standard install- I'm using it as an end-vise on a split top Roubo, and the mating surface is bolted on to the two halves. Putting a twin screw vise on two halves has proven to be a very difficult challenge. If it were one solid top, I could easily take it off, mount the vise, and then put it on the bench. With the split top, not only did I have to mount a piece for the chop to mate to, but I also had to be very careful to make the mortices line up properly since the two tops are separate pieces. Will try to get a picture. I'm trying to fully disclose my situation because I don't want to discredit either company, but let me just say, the Lie-Nielsen has very little room for error. 1/64th off and it will bind, and you can't just drill the holes a bit oversized in the chop because they have to fit the bushing.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Here is the pic of my failure. I tried filling the holes in the chop with epoxy and spilled epoxy all over the floor, so here it sits until I get over being mad at it. Edit: the bondo is from another project! Another Edit: This picture makes me laugh because you can see the bit to align the holes in the receiver that mounts to the bench, the allen wrench I was using to install the receiver piece, the chop, the remaining parts of the vise that I really thought were going to go together in a snap, the fan that I used because it was so hot in my shop, and the piece of wood I picked up and threw when it wouldn't go together right (see floor). This is truly a hilarious picture and I swear I did not set this up- I just walked into the shop and took it. It's like a crime scene- all the evidence is there in one picture.

[Brian Hale]

Thanks Malcolm!

I've heard of others battling the LN vise install, which didn't scare me away from it, but that it's good solid hardware. I've had their old style tail vise on my bench for ~ 10 years now and, aside from a little adjusting from time to time, it's worked great. This bench will be one solid top, 30"-36" wide and 5'-6' long.

As of now i don't have plans for using dogs with the Hovarter. I have 2 OLD 8" quick release vises that have been sitting in my shop for years and i'm thinking they would go on the end of the bench opposite the Hovarter and use them with dogs. I had considered making the bench with the capability to clamp on the front and that's the benefit of the Veritas vise, just extend the jaw past the edge, but i see little need for that in a joinery bench. My current bench has a shoulder vise if the need arises. Of course i'm probably wrong about that.......

I appreciate your input!

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks Malcolm!

I've heard of others battling the LN vise install, which didn't scare me away from it, but that it's good solid hardware. I've had their old style tail vise on my bench for ~ 10 years now and, aside from a little adjusting from time to time, it's worked great. This bench will be one solid top, 30"-36" wide and 5'-6' long.

As of now i don't have plans for using dogs with the Hovarter. I have 2 OLD 8" quick release vises that have been sitting in my shop for years and i'm thinking they would go on the end of the bench opposite the Hovarter and use them with dogs. I had considered making the bench with the capability to clamp on the front and that's the benefit of the Veritas vise, just extend the jaw past the edge, but i see little need for that in a joinery bench. My current bench has a shoulder vise if the need arises. Of course i'm probably wrong about that.......

I appreciate your input!

I am really impressed with the Hovarter from videos, the instructions, and speaking with Mr. Hovarter. (Sorry, forgot his first name.) The offset dog issue was my only concern.

[Brian Hale]

I stumbled across them years ago but forgot about them until recently when i moved my shop to the second floor of the new garage and now have room for a second bench. The mechanism seems so simple and logical

[Christopher Charles]

Malcolm, thanks for the laugh! And I hope that you are a good crook and return to the scene of the crime soon...

Good luck to you both.

[Mike Brady]

I built a bench with the LN vise about ten years ago. I had used one at a woodworking school. Made my own chop and got lucky with it. Occasionally I have to adjust one end of it in or out to accommodate some wood movement, but it sure is nice to have 18" between the screws on a vise. I'm glad I didn't read a post like yours back then because I would probably have shy'd away from the project. Leg vises were the real buzz back then.

The Hovarter vise interested me back then, but it never got the blessing of the woodworking community. To this day I have never read a user review of one. The owner should have gotten it in front of people at WIA, but he probably figured that "If I build it they will come". They didn't.

[Brian Hale]

I've seen a couple forum posts with comments like "Works Great", nothing substantial, but i've not seen anything negative about it either. I think i'm going to order it but i'll ask them a couple questions first like ideal thickness of the benchtop and max distance from "screws" to the top of the jaw.

The 25" between shaft centers really gets my attention

Brian

[Jason Baker IX]

I installed the Hovarter leg vise on my Nicholson bench over a year ago. I also looked at the Benchcrafted vise as an option, but this was a retrofit job and the Hovarter seemed like it would be slightly easier to retrofit on my bench. I don't have experience with any other leg vises so I have nothing to compare it to. I made a moxon vise using Benchcrafted hardware and really like their hardware as well.

The adjustability of the Hovarter vise is fluid and switching between the face and edge of a board is really fast. The only minor downside to this vise is that with the cam action the leg vise only travels a short distance when clamping in a board. If you don't push the leg vise close up against the board before clamping down, the cam might not lock it in tight enough. You get used to this pretty quickly so it's not a big deal, but sometimes I wish it could travel just a bit more. I'd buy it again. No regrets.

IMG_20180825_120523.jpg

[Brian Hale]

Jason, Thank you!

There's so little written about these vises it's nice to hear some real world opinions. I did run across somebody's comment saying almost exactly what you said, make sure the jaw is against the workpiece before tightening the vise or it may not grip it firmly. How far does the jaw travel when you tighten it?

Brian

[Don Peters]

Brian,


I have both the leg Hovarter vise and wagon vises, and they’re great. My older bench has Record #53 1/2 quick release vises, and they’ve spoiled me even though they’re fifty years old and pretty agricultural. The Hovarter vises are really elegant by comparison.


I’ve used the earlier version of the Veritas twin screw vise, and I just hated it. It was a constant struggle to keep it working right. I’m guessing their newer variant must be quite a bit better, although I’ve found that I’d rather not mess with twin screws no matter who makes the vise. I use a Moxon vise when I need to clamp through.


My Hovarters are on a low (33”) bench which puts the center of the leg vise at around 24” off the floor, lower than most benches because of wide aprons. I mention this because I started out with the large diameter hand wheel (8”?) on the leg vise and the smaller hand wheel on the wagon vise. I found that I didn’t care for the hand wheels because you need to apply significant torque in the last third of the clamping rotation, and I found that awkward with the hand wheels on the low bench. This wouldn’t be as much of an issue with a taller bench. The Tommy bars Len supplies are more comfortable for me to use because they’re longer and thus naturally apply more torque. In fact I still have the hand wheels if anyone wants them.


Both vises are dead easy to install and require minimal “tuning”. The actual cam mechanism is housed inside an anodized alloy case that gets screwed to the bench, so it’s never exposed to sawdust or the like. The only maintenance required is a shot of dry lube on the main shaft now and then in order to keep the chop moving effortlessly.


I found that my original 2 1/2” thick maple chop was flexing more than I like for a leg vise so I added some hickory to make it around 3 1/2” thick, and that fixed the issue. Lining the bench and the chop with leather ensures rock steady clamping for anything you’ll ever use a leg vise for.


As for Malcom’s concern about offset dog holes, I suspect that Len’s answer was tempered by an engineer’s natural caution. Having used the Hovarter vises for a couple of years now, I wouldn’t hesitate to offset a dog hole along side the shaft, but I’d try to keep it as close as possible.


If I had to do it over, I’d still buy the Hovarter vises. The Benchcrafted vises are certainly in the same league as far as quality is concerned, but they’re not quick release. And, while I’m a big fan of Veritas tools, I can’t comment on their newest twin screw vise.

[Jason Baker IX]

Jason, Thank you!

How far does the jaw travel when you tighten it?

Brian

My unscientific measurement suggests about 3/16" travel.

[Don Peters]

I agree with Jason. That doesn't seem like a lot, but remember that you're starting from no clearance. You pull the chop out, insert the work piece, push the chop against it, then wind up the handle. If you can get the full 3/16", you'll crush anything but balsa.

[Brian Hale]

Don, Thanks for your input! I was on the fence concerning weather to get the hand wheels but you've pushed me to the bars. I'm also thinking i'll set it up with just one bar ...... I think

Jason, 3/16 sounds like plenty since, like Don states, you're starting out with the jaw against the work piece and i can't imagine crushing a hunk of oak that much.

So now that i've decided to go with this vise it's time to put some serious thought into the joinery bench.......