Waterlox finish problems

[Connie Dobbins]

First, I’m new and computer challenged. And female. So if I commit any violations, please forgive and advise. My problem: Finishing my countertops with Waterlox. Their claims made me believe Waterlox was the “god of all finishes”. I found it to be the opposite. After weeks of following directions and waiting days or weeks for each coat to dry,(live in the humid Deep South), I put the finishing coat on 3 days ago. There were “nubs” I could feel, and I lightly sanded using 1000 grit WD. I buffed with lambs wool, and the result is a streaked milky mess. Help!!!

[Patrick Walsh]

I use it all the time on everything.

How can I help?

I find it as easy a finish to apply as anything.

I guess I have some background finishing though.

Thin coats, I use a foam brush. Let them dry all the way between. The first two or three I will put on over one to two days with no sanding. When I say thin I mean the foam brush has barely anything on it and you really have to work it to get the moisture out.

After you get a decent base build up I sand with 32. Then vacuumed tack with the back of my hand and apply another very very thin coat. At this point I let coats dry 3-7 days between. I continue on costing then sanding with 400, vac tack. Sand again with like 800 vac, tack let dry. The higher in grits you get the more important it is to get the finish Rick hard dry before sanding again or it gums up. I then go 1000, maybe 1500 then 2000.

I normally out on ten very very thin coats and it takes me about 6-8 weeks to finish a piece..

Thin coats, vac tack, sand through the grits to 2000. You can get away with sanding only to like 400..

Any scratches left in the wood or subsequent coats of finish will only get worse as the coats build so sand them out when you see them. Always sand the whole piece evenly. Dont ever burn through one coat to the previous just in one spot or to bare wood. Make sure if you need to sand out a run you sand the whole piece evenly.

By the sounds of what you have I suspect letting it sit a month or two then sanding back to bare wood and starting again is your best approach.

[John TenEyck]

Patrick, your post confirms why I've never used Waterlox. I'd go nuts if I had to work/wait 6 - 8 weeks to finish a piece.

Connie, I suspect the streaks you now have came from sanding before the finish was cured very much. To get rid of them you have a few of options. Y

ou could put some 800 or 1000 grit on your ROS and sand it dead smooth and then wipe on one or two more really thin coats of finish. Or you could wait until the finish cures really hard

(30 days) and then sand with increasingly fine grits, up to at least 2000, and then switch to automotive polishing compound to bring it up to any sheen you want. Or you could just use 0000 steel wool and paste wax (again, after about 30 days) to get a very nice satin sheen.


John

[Bennett Ostroff]

I agree with John. I'd say the scratches you made will probably all go away with another coat. Try to minimize dust until the last coat is tack free. Then just leave it. No need to sand off the nubs, at least no rush to. I find most of them will go away with normal use.

[Lee Schierer]

After you get a decent base build up I sand with 32.

I hope this is a typo! That would be some pretty serious sandpaper.

[Patrick Walsh]

Yes typo..

As much a pain waterlox can be it really is a great finish. I dint ever use it for work purposes but for a natural finish on maple imop it can’t be beat.

The tie. It takes does not much bother me as worst case “at least for my projects” it normally takes me 15min-2vhours to prep and apply a coat. One coat a week is perfect I am normally building something else while finishing the the last thing o built.

The voc compliant stuff is problematic from what I hear. I always use the original formula.

BE has threebto four coats and has to be sanded between coats. Mahogany has 5-7 coats and has been sanded between coats.

The sheen will dull a bit over time. Any streaks and lines will also even out over time if they are not outright mistakes like runs sags or pools of finish..

At work we use conversion varnish. I consider the stuff junk...

612C447D-2DE3-44A4-802D-DE41B0E97540.jpg

47182CB7-8FCF-4D86-ACD3-247282FD9683.jpg

857DDC18-5FB6-4449-A136-979DEDE3B098.jpg

2BA3C979-CE78-41CD-8DE4-F7310F08CB5C.jpg

I hope this is a typo! That would be some pretty serious sandpaper.

[Wayne Lomman]

John has the right idea here. It will get you the best result possible.

You have found out the hard way that sales speak is mostly thinly disguised lies. With any coating product, find a copy of its Technical Data Sheet and read it carefully. That is the place where there are least lies. Cheers

[Prashun Patel]

"Finishing my countertops with Waterlox"

Hi Connie.

Can you be more specific? Which Waterlox product are you using? If you are using the "Original Sealer Finish", are you using the "Original Formulation" or the "VOC Compliant" version.

How have you been applying it? Wiping, brushing?

[Connie Dobbins]

Thanks to all of you!!! I only read one reply that depresses me.....not recommended on pieces you work on. Kitchen countertops definitely fall in that category. There again, Waterlox claims it’s not only great for countertops, but floors as well!!! As for being new at finishing wood (Patrick), I’ve been doing it for years, but never used anything that required being waterproof. My husband and I converted the space above the garage into a studio apartment. We installed a pine floor and stair steps. We used the typical polyurethane on bare wood (no stain), and they looked awesome. I used Minwax water base poly for the countertops (9 coats). Even though I knew that wasn’t a practical choice, I knew who was going to be living there, and knew they would be careful. I used a product called Kwick Kote on several furniture pieces, and they had the hand rubbed look I love. But they were definitely not water resistant. My son had used Danish oil on some of his small wood pieces, so I tried it. I loved the fact you didn’t have to worry about brushing it on perfect, because you couldn’t go back and work out any imperfections
. So after all the years I’ve been refinishing my antique pieces, I started doing research on what’s best to use. How I wish I had found places such as this, to know how ignorant I was!!!
To Prashun Patel, I’m using the original. I kinda think I know what went wrong. I tried to cheat on the drying time. After 3 coats, and sanded super smooth, we went on vacation for two weeks. It was definitely dry when I returned, so I put two more coats on (waiting several days between coats). But I just couldn’t wait to rid it of the nibs and that shiny finish. Since I first posted my problem, I put another coat on a small piece, to see what if the milky film would go away, and it did. So I guess I’ll put another coat on the rest of them.....and leave it alone!!!
,

[Connie Dobbins]

I’m going to use Rockler 100% Tung Oil on my next project. Does anyone know whether or not I can use it over Waterlox?

[John TenEyck]

I don't know if you can put tung oil over Waterlox; I doubt it actually. But most people would do it the other way around, tung oil then Waterlox if they were thinking of using the two together. But the best approach is to stick with one product from start to finish.

John

[Steve Schoene]

You cannot use 100% tung oil over varnish. Oils such as tung oil are designed to penetrate into bare wood with excess on the surface wiped off. Over varnish, it would either just be wiped off, or if not, it would build film that would be so soft that it would not be a satisfactory finish.

[Jeff Geltz]

Not to confuse the issue but I am making new countertops from 6/4 black walnut for a "from scratch" kitchen cabinet build. I researched finishes for quite some time including the one you used and decided to go with a tung oil finish from Sutherland Welles. I built a live edge slab dining room table for a friend and he used their products with terrific result. I was dubious at first but its been over five years since I built that table and it still looks like new even though they use it every day.

After discussion with the very helpful folks at SW, they guided me to their Table Top product along with their hard sealer - a combo they claim to be even appropriate for commercial applications such as bars and restaurants. A link to the product info can be found here:

http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/murdoch-table-top.html

I tested out the products on a small section of counter pictured below and thus far the results are stunning. I like not only the resulting finish but it also did a fantastic job of bringing out the grain without significantly darkening the wood. I went with the satin finish but they also have gloss. Even though they say the sealer dries in a few hours I gave each coat of both sealer and finish an overnight to dry before sanding and applying the next coat.

The only downside with the table top product is that I gather that it can be difficult to spot repair but I am hoping that the hard as nails texture of the finish will preclude that if we are at all careful about not beating it up.

Hopefully this will help on the next project if not this one. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

20180605_175016.jpg

[glenn bradley]

I’m going to use Rockler 100% Tung Oil on my next project.

I researched finishes for quite some time including the one you used and decided to go with a tung oil finish from Sutherland Welles.

I know we clarify this frequently but, for the sake of this thread; "100% Tung Oil" is tung oil while a "Tung Oil Finish" is an oil/varnish blend. These are two very different animals.

[Al Launier]

Connie, thank you for this thread. It was interesting to read the comments about apply Waterlox, a finish I've also never used before. And, after reading the posts I doubt if I will ever try to use Waterlox as it seems to be a very time intensive, labor intensive, knowledge intensive, and experience intensive finishing process.

Patrick, those are indeed beautiful finishes shown in post #8.

On a few occasions in the past I've thought of trying a Waterlox finish, but the information I read about applying it, and the responses noted above, have reaffirmed for me to not using it. Frankly , I just don't have the patience to spend that amount of time on a finish and especially having a limited amount of finishing experience to begin with. To demonstrate this please explain what you meant by "Then vacuumed tack with the back of my hand", as I don't know what you meant by that. Could it simply be that you vacuumed the sanding dust and then used a tack cloth to complete the removal of any residual dust?