Justifying A Major Tool Purchase

[Julie Moriarty]

When my eyes started crossing I figured it was a good time to take a break. I grabbed four 1x6s and ran them through the jointer, both sides. They were all concave. So the infeed definitely drops down, going away from the cutterhead.

I'm trying to figure out what I paid for with that $5K. "Here's your brand new Hammer JP. Now fix it. If you ask the right questions we might send you directions." Nice.

[Greg Parrish]

When my eyes started crossing I figured it was a good time to take a break. I grabbed four 1x6s and ran them through the jointer, both sides. They were all concave. So the infeed definitely drops down, going away from the cutterhead.

I'm trying to figure out what I paid for with that $5K. "Here's your brand new Hammer JP. Now fix it. If you ask the right questions we might send you directions." Nice.

Im still ignoring mine. Getting close to wrapping up my loft bed stair project so I’ll be back at it soon but have been trying not to think about it till then. LOL

hope you get it figured out soon.

[David Kumm]

My understanding is that Felder sets up the machine to spring joint although yours sounds like too much. There has been lots of discussion about that and adjusting tables over on the Felder Owners Group. Dave

[Peter Christensen]

“ If this is the case we would recommend jumping up another size machine. ”

I’m kind of staggered that they would suggest getting a bigger machine is the answer to your problems. Would getting a 16”, 20”, 24” machine have a fence that does move to the widest point maintaining the perpendicularly or do they just figure your arms are too short to reach across a larger jointer table and the problems go away? An attitude that in the unlikely event I had the money to burn would keep me from buying their machines.

[Greg Parrish]

I think they are saying the 12” jointer isn’t good for 12” edge jointing and if you want to edge joint the 12” you should have bought the 16” machine or wider but maybe I’m misinterpreting.

[Julie Moriarty]

My understanding is that Felder sets up the machine to spring joint although yours sounds like too much. There has been lots of discussion about that and adjusting tables over on the Felder Owners Group. Dave

The problem with that theory is the length of the jointer table and the length of the board come into play. The 36" boards I jointed would probably tear apart in time if you tried to edge glue them. If they were 18", then maybe you'd get the right amount of concave for a successful spring joint. I'd prefer a straight joint at the jointer then hand plane the spring joint.

[Julie Moriarty]

I think they are saying the 12” jointer isn’t good for 12” edge jointing and if you want to edge joint the 12” you should have bought the 16” machine or wider but maybe I’m misinterpreting.

That's how I took it, Greg.

[David Kumm]

Julie, I agree that your problem is too much. A spring joint is something like couple thou over 6-8'. My old porter has an adjustment knob for spring joints on its 54" infeed table and I have it locked down to avoid it. If the tables are flat, you should be able to adjust it out. Good luck. Dave

[Matt Mattingley]

In my opinion this JP could’ve been set up in the factory dead nuts. During its shipping it could’ve been picked up and lowered fairly quickly (dropped) with a forklift two or three dozen times. On every truck it could’ve hit a pothole A number of times. The sea can operator could’ve bumped things out of whack on either end. There is no way a company can guarantee perfection unless there is a PDI ( pre-delivery inspection, paid for built into the price or extra) set up at location.

I am my own PDI inspector. Nothing I buy new or used doesn’t get a full inspection and tweaked if possible.

[Rod Sheridan]

When my eyes started crossing I figured it was a good time to take a break. I grabbed four 1x6s and ran them through the jointer, both sides. They were all concave. So the infeed definitely drops down, going away from the cutterhead.

I'm trying to figure out what I paid for with that $5K. "Here's your brand new Hammer JP. Now fix it. If you ask the right questions we might send you directions." Nice.

hi, how much is the concavity over 3 feet?

The machines are normally setup to produce a few thou concavity on that length..........Rod.

[Brian Holcombe]

If it’s noticeable it’s probably too much. In any case, I think it’s time to adjust the tables. If you adjust them correctly you’ll have a better understanding of the machine and it’s idiosyncrasies.

Likely you want to just use it. I’m on my third machine now that was ‘just used’ without digging into their respective issues and all of them improved (except one in the process of being broken down) after really getting to the heart of the problems.

If you bring it to spec, then you know it’s at spec and can rely upon the results you produce with it.

[Mike King]

Julie, this has been the topic of much discussion on the Felder Owners Group for as long as I've been a member. Definitely join the group. You will be able to access the threads discussing the alignment and setup of your jointer/planer as well as the service manuals for the same.

I'd also say it is unrealistic for anyone to expect that a machine shipped via freight is going to arrive perfectly in calibration. Even more unrealistic when the origin is actually a factory a continent away and there's shipping in a container as well. Join the group, learn how to setup and calibrate your machine, and then get to work enjoying the fruits of your labor.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

I do hope that Felder are monitoring this thread. Some will argue that it is "unrealistic" to expect a machine to retain its settings travelling across two continents, and even that there is value in learning to set up the machine oneself. On the other hand, my perception is that there is an expectation that a machine arrives ready to go. It seems that Felder USA do not warn prospective customers that it is a likelihood that they will need to fine tune their machine. I wonder how that would affect sales if they did so?

Here in Perth, and I believe it is the same across Australia, a machine is assembled by the local agent, and is transported to the workshop - in my case, to my home. The machine arrives with a technician, who checks the set up is still correct, and tunes it up if it is not. I have had three Hammer machines purchased and installed this way over a period of about 10 years. When the last one, the K3 Winner (slider) was delivered (a year ago), the technician automatically checked my N4400 bandsaw, and tightened the belt. I contacted him after a week as the sliding table was 0.5mm too high at the near end. He came out a few days later to reset it, and showed me how to do this. No charge.

I have had such amazing service locally, that the stories I hear here are just so foreign. They make me wonder how on Earth any company could survive this word-of-mouth criticism, or why a company would not do all they could to prevent it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dan Friedrichs]

Respectfully, I disagree that it's reasonable to expect machinery to arrive "ready to go", if your definition of "ready to go" implies perfect alignment. Ultimately, if that's the expectation that people get, then the manufacturer should more clearly articulate their position. But to my set of norms, expecting any machine to immediately work perfectly is about as absurd as buying a bookshelf at IKEA and being confused that it's not assembled for you.



Derek, if you were anywhere other than Perth, I'd laugh and ask if you understood how big the US is

As an American, what you describe is such an odd concept, as well - although I'm envious.

I'm really curious about how things work, there (especially given your remote location). Is the local agent an employee of Felder, or a dealer of multiple lines? In a place as remote as you are, do you have any understanding of how that agent is able to keep a technician sufficiently trained and busy? Or how the economics of it work? How many pieces of equipment could be sold in a given day in a geography within driving distance of Perth (which would encompass, what, 2M people?).

Is the cost of machinery very different than the (relative) cost we pay in the US? As some basis of comparison, an A3-31 costs ~$5k USD, delivered, which is about 1/10th the median US household income. The cost of flying a technician to a customer's location (in the US), putting the technician up in a hotel for a night, paying his meals, wages , etc, would mean that it would probably cost over $1k to have the type of service you describe. That's almost certainly more than Felder's profit margin on the machine. I don't think it's any surprise that they don't do this. Besides, this is squarely "consumer" (or "pro-sumer") level equipment, and no other vendors do anything even remotely similar...

[Julie Moriarty]

Let's say the machine left the factory in perfect condition and was ready to use without adjustments. Now let's say Felder was aware things could get knocked out of whack during shipping and handling. Wouldn't the logical thing to do be to include a complete manual that covered all of the possible issues that may arise due to shipping and handling?

That's all I'm asking. But I'm having a hard time getting that. I fear all I will get is a few pages from the manual here and there that may or may not be what I'm looking for.

Why make so hard? Just include the service manual and it's done. Or at least provide a download site. We shouldn't have to fight for this.

Obviously the one part of justifying this purchase that never crossed my mind was the difficulty in trying to get documentation that will help me get the JP to proper working order.