It does strike me as a detail they should have worked out in the engineering room.
As I found with my FD250.,..there are details left to the user to work out (or not most likely) that should have been worked out at the factory.
Contributor
It does strike me as a detail they should have worked out in the engineering room.
As I found with my FD250.,..there are details left to the user to work out (or not most likely) that should have been worked out at the factory.
Contributor
Hi Julie
I am not getting what you experience with the fence when edge jointing. This may be because I use it differently. Edge jointing does not require that the fence is set at the maximum width. In fact, I deliberately vary the position of the fence across the bed so that the carbide blades/inserts get used evenly.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Contributor
Thats what I was trying to suggest above. Unless it’s a large cube or square beam with 10 to 12 inch sides you can bring the fence back in. It’s just a pain to have to do so. Derek explained it much more eloquently though.Originally Posted by Derek Cohen
So essentially if you want to use the whole width of the jointer when face joining you have to deal with the fence almost falling off the machine such that you have to lift it up and reposition it when going back to edge jointing? With a machine at that price point, I can't help but think there just be a part missing, or something was assembled improperly. Can't imagine that is how it's supposed to work. Even with the fancy head, you will still find a need to run the board over on a skew such that you take up the full width of the machine.That's not the issue, Dan. If you want a full width cut, you have to push the fence all the way back. Yet when you reach 8-1/2" of cutter exposure, one of the plastic washers on the underside of the fence assembly clears the jointer bed and lands on a hinge cover. At that point the fence falls out of square. That's the issue I somewhat fixed above. But the fence is still a little out of square, it's better than before but still not square. Felder simply failed to design a hinge cover that would avoid that problem in the first place.
Those two plastic washers are the only thing keeping the fence square.
At 9-1/2" of cutter exposure, the end of the locking fence guide is flush with the end of the guide rail. I could gain another 3/8" if I push the guide rail back all the way but then you're only up to ~10" before the fence guide begins to clear the guide rail. Push it back another inch and the fence falls even further out of square. There is so much slop between the fence guide and guide rail sliding it back and forth will cause it to bind.
As I said earlier, the Unifence guide is far superior to Felder's guide on the A3-31. You wouldn't need plastic washers under the fence assembly to keep the fence square. Felder's fence guide is just a poor design.
[OP]
Member
Right. If I had a 9" square piece of timber I wanted to joint, I'd have to pull out a square to adjust the fence. The problem is those two plastic washers on the bottom are all keeping the fence square. Once they leave the jointer table, the fence falls out of square.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain
Well I guess what I'm saying is that even if you're face jointing a 4" wide, long stick with challenging grain, you will still want to skew it sometimes such that you take up a lot more than 4". Those heads are great on challenging grain, but they're not invincible, so you still need to keep a few tricks in your bag of tricks.
B
[OP]
Member
I'm sorry, maybe I didn't explain it right. Here is where I'm measuring square.
Fence_Issue_07.jpg
That's what it looks like when the fence is moved all the way back and before lifting it up to square it.
Fence_Issue_08.jpg
This is after lifting it and tightening the lock knob.
There's nothing between the fence guide and the guide rail to prevent the fence guide from lifting or tilting. Here's a shot at the back end. At this point one of the plastic adjustment screws is no longer contacting the guide rail. Parallel isn't that big a deal. But square can be.
Fence_Issue_05.jpg
And the forward end. You have to push that side down before locking the knob but that still doesn't get it square.
Fence_Issue_06.jpg
I loosened the plastic screws that parallel the fence in the two shots above so you can see there is an extrusion on the fence guide that could fit into a slot but there is no slot on the guide rail for it to slide into. You can pick the entire fence assembly straight up. There is no need to slide it to one end or the other to remove it.
This is what the underside looks like when the fence is all the way back
Fence_Issue_09.jpg
That black plastic washer is one of two that keep the fence square with the table. It is sitting on the edge of a hinge cover here. The cover is held in place by two screws fastened to the edge of the bed. There's nothing to keep it from bending down at the outer edge.
As long as the two plastic washers are riding on the table, the fence is perfectly square. Once that first washer drops onto the hinge cover, it falls out of square.
I've got the plastic screws that parallel the fence as snug as I can while still allowing for the fence to be moved. But that does make the fence bind as you're moving it back and forth. If I loosen those screws too much, the movement is sloppy but still binds a bit.
Maybe the 410mm guide rail will help in sliding it back and forth. As for square, after jointing wide boards, I'll have to remember to pull the fence forward for edge jointing. It's a lot easier to do that since I added those washers under the hinge cover but really, none of this should have been necessary.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain
Member
You've explained it perfectly well Julie and it looks like a pretty poor design. I think what people above are saying is that since you never really need to use the fence when you're using the full width of the jointer (i.e. you don't use the fence for face jointing) that it going out of square when slid out that far is not a big deal. I guess that's sort of true, but it's still a pretty sloppy design to have the fence flop around when you slide it back far enough to access most of the width of the cutterhead. You shouldn't have to fight with tools when you're spending that kind of money on them.
Moderator
Julie, if you push the fence back to face joint and then return it to a more central location for doing an edge, does it "come back" to square or do you need to adjust it each and every time? It should always be checked regardless, but I'm just curious if "going off the rail" takes it out of square after it's returned back toward the front.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Contributor
Hi, The 2 plastic glides on the fence do not provide square reference for the fence, they prevent marking the table from the metal fence sliding on it. The square reference is provided by the clamping head on the mounting rail in conjunction with the fence quadrant.
I suggest that you set your mounting rail at 17mm below the table and position as far back as the 2 mounting bolts allow. This will allow you to set the fence far back from the table front.
The fence square position is set by the 2 stop bolts on the fence quadrant, those should only need adjusting once.
I also ignore the rear clamping bolt on the rear cutter guard, it's a modification to solve a non existant problem and in my opinion causes only difficulties for users......Regards, Rod.
Member
Julie, part of the problem is you set the side rail too close to the front. On mine, the front T-nut is about 1/4 to 3/8 hanging out of the extrusion. I wish they made the extrusion about 4 inches longer. Just slide the side rail back about 3/4”-1”.
E56DEA8B-C1D5-41E3-ACE9-42D0B167C8C0.jpg
Member
I agree with Glen, the fence all the way back is a non issue because it is just not really being used.
Brent, not sure if skewing a board is necessary over a spiral head? The cutters are skewed on the head by design as to give you a “shear” cut without skewing the board. My jointer has straight knives so I skew the boards as you suggest but I am not sure if that is still beneficial over a spiral head?
[OP]
Member
When those two plastic washers are sitting on the jointer bed, the fence is perfectly square. When the first one falls off, the fence falls out of square. I've checked this several times. When I put pressure on the forward end of the clamping head, what I've been calling the fence guide, the fence comes close to square but not quite.
The mounting rail is set at 17mm. I would have moved it back already but it's such a pain to get it exactly at 17mm. As I tighten it, the rail moves. So I have to tap it back into place and tighten a bit more, then repeat until it's snug and at 17mm across the rail. When you have to use a hammer to to obtain "exactly 17mm", precision machining has left the building. With CAD design and CNC machines, Felder should have made this part of the assembly foolproof.
Right, but when one stop bolt, what I've been calling plastic screws, moves off the rail, they become useless. And moving the guide rail all the way back won't prevent that. Felder should have supplied a longer rail.
You lost me there, Rod.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain
[OP]
Member
Isn't this a little nuts? You have to set the rail so part of the T-nut is hanging out the end. Who designed this? All they had to do was either move the mounting hole back or provide a longer rail. Instead they leave it to the customer to Rube Goldberg it. And for what they charge for these machines? Yeah, this is nuts!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain
Guest
Here's the thing, it's two tools in one. There will be sacrifices to each being everything can't be optimized, especially at that price point. Normally a jointer has a plate the fence rides on when it is off the table. I'm guessing with the jointer tables being hinged to swing out of the way for thicknessing, this isn't possible?
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