Saw files

[Mike Brady]

Well said, Stewie. What I can't understand is why makers go to the expense of operating a file producing business and then produce crap? Surely there is still a need for decent files in industry. ---or am I wrong?

[Luke Dupont]

Seconded. I have the same experience. Avoid Nicholson files.

2-3year ago I purchased 3 full boxes of mexican made nicholson taper files on the recommendation of others.

I still have 2 files short of those 3 boxes today in my workshop.

2 words would reflect my experience with those of mex.files .Utter Crap.

[Kees Heiden]

My Bahco files ain’t that bad. I have filed new teeth in new saw plates with them without the kind of edge damage in the pictures above. And sharpening existing teeth doesn’t destroy them that quickly either. I use Bahco needle files for the dovetail saws.

[David Ragan]

What does NOS mean?

Any concern about an arris on the corner to prevent me from screwing up the gullet?

[Stewie Simpson]

David; of a much earlier date of manufacture but still in new/unused condition.

New Old Stock.

[Pete Taran]

I couldn’t disagree more about the quality of Nicholson files. I have always used the files I sell to others. I have changed brands many times over the years. Started with Simonds, then Bacho, then Grobet and now Nicholson. If I can’t use them to my satisfaction personally, then I don’t sell them.

I use a Foley filer for the vast majority of my file work. Since it’s mechanical, I often take almost 1/8” inch off per single pass. This is extreme, but if teeth are regularly spaced but poorly shaped, this saves on retoothing. No person could put enough pressure on a file to cause this kind of cutting by hand. In my experience the teeth wear away before the corners fail. I don’t think there is a perfect saw file made. I don’t think there ever was. Changing angles when hand filing puts a lot of pressure on file teeth at the tips. When you have a piece of steel that is hardened to 70 Rockwell, it can’t take a lot of abuse.

Having said all that, expecting a file to last forever is the wrong approach. I use one edge per saw and move on. When it’s done, it’s time for a new edge. I can’t speak for Nicholson quality years ago, but current production works just fine for me. I have been selling Nicholson for about 2 years now. Instead of searching for unobtainium, try what’s avavilable.

[Kees Heiden]

+1

Get used to what is available. NOS isn’t in my area. And use the files like a good user. They can get away with quite some pressure but try to learn to feel how the teeth are doing the work.

[Graham Haydon]

I've been very with Bacho saw files purchased via workshop heaven here in the UK.

[Simon MacGowen]

Instead of searching for unobtainium, try what’s avavilable.

+1

There is another thread about WR chisels where people asked about their quality. Frankly, most hobby woodworkers DON'T need premium chisels ($80 a piece or more) to do decent work. The marketing people, supported by magazines and writers and reviewers, have done a great job about promoting high end chisels. I read one where it says "it is a bargain compared to xxx Japanese chisels." If you have money and want to spend it on some nice tools, go ahead, and you don't need justifications.

How many hobby woodworkers file their own saws? Few people know how to do it or have done it. Those who do it are over worried about the files unless they sharpen saws for a living. I may sharpen my rips a few times a year -- tops == (less for my cross cuts), and each file has three edges. I can reuse each edge at least once or twice if not more and that means I am not spending much on buying saw files.

Simon

[Mike Brady]

To Pete Taran and others: When you refer to Nicholson tapered files are you meaning NOS or Mexico origin? If Pete's comments refer to the Mexican files I find that very encouraging, but my experience with them ( The Nicholsons in the green packaging and made in Mexico) has been mixed. Nicholson also made some Mexico origin files in their old blue/red packaging that were inferior. I'm going to assume that Pete goes through a quantity of files in his business whereas I am maintaining only my own small collection of saws. Anything above 14ppi I am utilizing needle files that are very satisfactory. Perhaps Nicholson has reach a point of quality equilibrium. Their files are sold by almost every Ace Hardware store, a nationwide chain. 6Xslim is their smallest file in stockin the stores; $6-8.

I do find it interesting that Lie-Nielsen is not stocking any saw files as they once did. I reading that to mean that they have not found any to sell that they can stand behind. I would love to know what LN factory saw-smiths are using on their production saws.

[Pete Taran]

The files I’m referring to are the ones currently made in Mexico. New production, not new old stock.

[steven c newman]

I just head to the local Green Borg ( Menard's) and buy a single file...maybe once a year. Saws between 5-1/2 to 7 ppi are about all I can see well enough to sharpen. Might do two or four a year. Not doing sharpening for a living....mainly to get the three rip saws sharp. I get the Stanley brand, $5.98+tax for a single 6" slim taper file. Usually get four sharpenings out of each file. Not a big issue, just want to maintain the saws I use.

Saws 8ppi and up? They get sent out to be sharpened....$0.60 per inch. Eyes I have see double at that level....let someone else do the work. IF I get allowed to go to the shop, I might get to see where Stanley has their files done. Saw set in the shop is a Millers Falls No. 214.....seems to work nice on the bigger teeth...saw vise is just an old Wentworth No. 1.....

[Mike Brady]

Thanks for that info, Pete and Steve.

[Stewie Simpson]

I couldn’t disagree more about the quality of Nicholson files. I have always used the files I sell to others. I have changed brands many times over the years. Started with Simonds, then Bacho, then Grobet and now Nicholson. If I can’t use them to my satisfaction personally, then I don’t sell them.

I use a Foley filer for the vast majority of my file work. Since it’s mechanical, I often take almost 1/8” inch off per single pass. This is extreme, but if teeth are regularly spaced but poorly shaped, this saves on retoothing. No person could put enough pressure on a file to cause this kind of cutting by hand. In my experience the teeth wear away before the corners fail. I don’t think there is a perfect saw file made. I don’t think there ever was. Changing angles when hand filing puts a lot of pressure on file teeth at the tips. When you have a piece of steel that is hardened to 70 Rockwell, it can’t take a lot of abuse.

Having said all that, expecting a file to last forever is the wrong approach. I use one edge per saw and move on. When it’s done, it’s time for a new edge. I can’t speak for Nicholson quality years ago, but current production works just fine for me. I have been selling Nicholson for about 2 years now. Instead of searching for unobtainium, try what’s avavilable.

Here is a truth about a Nicholson saw file now. The saw files made in Mexico have file teeth that consistently break at the corners as soon as you start using them. They didn’t used to do that ever. Now they do it with remarkable consistency. That means that instead of getting several saw sharpenings from one saw file, perhaps ten to fifteen, sometimes you may get only two or three. That then means that the saw file now costs $15-20 in real terms. The reason is that if the corner breaks, the file stops cutting. https://paulsellers.com/2012/04/nich...blow-it-again/

[Stewie Simpson]

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...0&d=1376215210