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Thread: thoughts on failed minimax saw motor

  1. #16
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    Like others my knee-jerk reaction is ‘line voltage’. It is odd that it functioned so well for you for so long, is moved to a new location with a new source voltage and things go south. When I sell things I sell them “as is, where is” for just this reason. However, like you I would feel some responsibility in following up to see what the cause was. If you have the wherewithal I would have the motor tested. Depending on how trustworthy the person who bought it is, you may just tell them to go and have it tested.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  2. #17
    Just my thoughts, not that they matter: Something like 208V + stopping/re-starting machine every 2-3 minutes = Unhappy motor. I sold as many S315's as anyone and cannot remember a truly bad motor. Caps, yes, but can't recall a single bad motor. Just my 2-cents. Motor is probably CEG, by the way.

    Erik

  3. #18
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    It might be informative if a single phase motor guy here would talk about how a faulty start or run cap could damage a motor, how long it would take, how to identify the problem, and how to test to avoid it. I'm a three phase guy so I have little experience with these issues. Maybe others can help.

    Joe, I understand your concern with an after the sale issue, kind of like the inserts I owe you. Dave

  4. #19
    These days an attitude like Joes is nice to see.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by david kumm View Post
    it might be informative if a single phase motor guy here would talk about how a faulty start or run cap could damage a motor, how long it would take, how to identify the problem, and how to test to avoid it.
    ^^^this^^^

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe milana View Post
    If the motor is bad, are there alternatives to buying one from scm?
    Recent model MiniMax sliders would more than likely have shipped with a CEG motor as opposed to a FIMEC. Might give them a call to see if they can either re-wind it or sell a replacement to the current owner.

    CEG North America
    Tel: 800-223-5557
    http://www.cegmotors.com/contact.html

    Replacements are also available from Parts Pronto if you're cool with being gouged by SCM.

    Edit: just saw Erik mentioned the same above. Check with CEG anyway.
    Last edited by Peter Kelly; 08-08-2018 at 8:46 PM.

  7. #22
    I have had 3 100 frame motors rewound. One 4.8kw and two 6.6kw. They were 600.00 each. 50 bucks cheaper than a replacement from SCM and was done quicker than the shipping time from Italy.

    I am sure the single phase would be close to the same price.

  8. #23
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    Hi, as I indicated in my original post, it's most likely that there's not a fault with the motor.

    It runs for 30 minutes before tripping the overloads.

    I would start with the items I listed in my post rather than replacing the motor without an accurate diagnosis.

    It would be good to measure the motor current under load to determine if there is a motor problem...............Rod.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe milana View Post
    I suggested voltage, but he said it was "fine" Whats a good way to monitor voltage? ....
    Measure it with a voltmeter. You can buy one for $15 at any big box store.

    It is true that a single-time measurement will not monitor voltage over time. But it will identify gross issues, like the 208 vs 230 one.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Hi, as I indicated in my original post, it's most likely that there's not a fault with the motor.

    It runs for 30 minutes before tripping the overloads.

    I would start with the items I listed in my post rather than replacing the motor without an accurate diagnosis.

    It would be good to measure the motor current under load to determine if there is a motor problem...............Rod.
    ^+1 - A motor issue would typically be obvious (i.e. trip the O/Ls) in 30sec or less. 99% of the bad motors I've seen will trip a properly set O/L in 2-3sec or less.

    I would want to know more about the current user's process: What's the max loading they're applying? What's their duty cycle?

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    Measure it with a voltmeter. You can buy one for $15 at any big box store.

    It is true that a single-time measurement will not monitor voltage over time. But it will identify gross issues, like the 208 vs 230 one.
    If you spend a few extra bucks, you can get a multi-meter and a clamp-on amp probe. You'll be an 'expert' (almost). Many multi-meters have a 'min/max' feature that captures the low and high values measured in a given period of time.

    Based on a severe lack of information, but allowing for their 30 minute run time, my first suspicion is that the user is over-loading the saw. If their process is to load 8 3/4" sheets of MDF on the saw with a 100' 16ga extension cord, a 16" blade, and a 3hp motor (...no, I didn't look up the specs), then rip it to 1" widths while the lights dim in every cut - - then I'd guess it's not the motor? I've never used a slider, but can't help but think I'd overload it too, given the ease of material feed.
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 08-09-2018 at 11:40 AM. Reason: clarity - - maybe?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe milana View Post
    ...Replaced the run cap & the saw ran "beautifully", then the same thing...
    I think it would be worth taking a look at that capacitor again. A run capacitor has to be rated for continuous duty. Start capacitors are for intermittent use. If a run capacitor is replaced with a start capacitor the motor will run properly for a while until the capacitor overheats and fails.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  13. I would agree with Rod, before pulling the motor check for bad connections or small extension cord, bad plug or outlet, also is the motor a TEFC, the fan could be broken, missing blades, lose on the shaft vents blocked, after all that is checked if you have a amp meter clamp it around one of the power leads, is the amps higher the name plate rating while it is at idle, or are the amps
    fluctuating
    by 3 to 4 amps I do not know your setup but is the saw driven by a belt if so then could your arbor bearings be bad? Also how about your motor bearings are they bad. 30 minutes of running to me dose not sound like a bad motor,these are things I would look for when I use to do service work on electric motors

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Hi, as I indicated in my original post, it's most likely that there's not a fault with the motor.

    It runs for 30 minutes before tripping the overloads.

    I would start with the items I listed in my post rather than replacing the motor without an accurate diagnosis.

    It would be good to measure the motor current under load to determine if there is a motor problem...............Rod.
    I’m pressing the like button. Run capacitors and start capacitors are two different animals. Most start capacitors average between 7-10 starts per hour, to stay happy. Usually if A capacitor is shot, the overloads will trip in under 10 seconds. If the overloads have tripped to many times, the overloads could be faulty.

    If Rod is on board answering electrical questions, I usually don’t double guess him, as is the most brilliant electrical guy I know.

  15. #30
    I wish I understood electricity better.

    If it were me, I'd pull the motor and take it to a motor shop. Split the bill with the dude who bought it. A few months ago my dust collector popped all three fuses in the control cabinet. Turned out a bad bearing took out the windings. $600 later the motor was rewound and rebuilt.
    Plus another $350 to balance the fan. That was a 20hp Baldor. I think I had it back in two days.

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