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Thread: Sharpening for chisels and planes

  1. Stanley Covington recently told me about an experiment that was done at a university in Japan on a convex vs a flat bevel. They found it's faster to sharpen a flat bevel and there was no noticeable difference in edge retention. The bevels on my chisels have always been convex so I decided to see if I can get them completely flat or at least very close to flat. I found it impossible to create a truly flat bevel by freehand sharpening them but I'm very close. My bevels still have a tiny bit of convexity, maybe 0.25mm but I have already noticed a difference in speed of sharpening. It's now much easier to erase the scratch marks of the previous stone as I work my way up in grit size. I have ordered a Richard Kell Nr.2 honing guide and my plan is now to do the initial sharpening with the guide on the coarse grits to create a flat bevel (and keep it flat), and do the finer grits freehand. I'm also going to make a block with several stops so I can easily set the distance I need for my oire, usu and atsu nomis.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    Stanley Covington recently told me about an experiment that was done at a university in Japan on a convex vs a flat bevel. They found it's faster to sharpen a flat bevel and there was no noticeable difference in edge retention. The bevels on my chisels have always been convex so I decided to see if I can get them completely flat or at least very close to flat. I found it impossible to create a truly flat bevel by freehand sharpening them but I'm very close. My bevels still have a tiny bit of convexity, maybe 0.25mm but I have already noticed a difference in speed of sharpening. It's now much easier to erase the scratch marks of the previous stone as I work my way up in grit size. I have ordered a Richard Kell Nr.2 honing guide and my plan is now to do the initial sharpening with the guide on the coarse grits to create a flat bevel (and keep it flat), and do the finer grits freehand. I'm also going to make a block with several stops so I can easily set the distance I need for my oire, usu and atsu nomis.
    Jessica, how did you measure the .25mm or even detect it?
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    It may surprise some but a lot of Japanese don't use stones at all but Silicon Carborundum Powder on a metal substrate, there are some YT videos showing this and a friend of mine recently did a course where he was shown this method so I decided to have a play and see what happens. I do my sharpening free hand so if you use a jig you might find this method a bit difficult to deal with.

    I obtained an old worn brake rotor from a car, it is cast iron, cost nothing and my son happens to have a brake lathe at his work so he machined it for me both sides. I then hollow ground a few blades on a 180 CBN wheel and using some 240 powder wet it into a paste, water, oil, light grease whatever you fancy will do for that. The beauty of this system is it is progressive in grit size as you work, it starts at 240 or whatever powder is chosen and as you continue to sharpen it breaks down to a finer grit the more you keep going and you can hear it happening. You want a 20,000 finish, just keep sharpening and that is what you get. My friend was told to keep at it until the powder turned white and then instantly stop but he was using water where I used some oil so I don't know if the same criteria works.

    After I thought I had taken it far enough I stropped using green compound on a piece of MDF and it certainly is at least as sharp as any of my previous methods and I do use Stu's three stones or some Shapton glass stones to compare it to. Total cost was less than five dollars including the fuel to pick up the rotors and no mucking around with progressive stone grits into the bargain. I will pre mix some powder/oil so as to speed things up a little. I can't think of another way to sharpen a blade for less money and less mucking around.
    Chris, I know of the use of Kanaban (flattening plate) with silicon carbide abrasive powder as a way to flatten and somewhat pre polish tool backs. This is fast and somewhat gets rid of the problem of water stones going out of flat too quickly and affecting the tool back. I can see the possibility of some bevel work with the kanaban but not as a mainstream thing in Japan. All the YT vids I know of that show the use of the Kanaban also show instructors or the craftsman go to their water stones and work the backs some more and make a point of establishing good bevels and a nice finish with diamond and waterstones (videos by the tracestudy channel etc). So do the various craftsmen and smiths I follow on social media. I have heard whispers but unconfirmed of using the method you've mentioned as a way to sharpen in Japan. I hesitate to accept that a lot of Japanese don't use stones and use this method, but then the world is pretty big. I may very well be hopelessly ignorant. Do you have any info on the course (Japanese course?) or it's teacher? I always like going to read about this sort of thing.

    I think I have seen one video of the making of a kanna where in the rough bevel shaping stages after hardening and some adjustments a jig and SC powder on plate setup was used to flatten the bevel. The blade was then worked again on the back with the plate and then run through the usual progression of water stones.

    I did briefly experiment with SC grit and some other powdered stuff on a substrate as a sharpening method, this was in junior high before I really got into hand tools. I really didn't like it. I was also oblivious to what good sharpening technique was so a lot of it was probably newbie influenced. A certain odd rounding bevel technique I had watched wasn't helping either. I didn't know of hollow grinding then but even now with most of my western tools hollow ground off a CBN setup running them quickly through 3 stones in a few seconds is more attractive an option to me. I still like SC grit and diamond compounds for lapping or putting silky finishes on steel.

    I can see the possibility of some Japanese folks doing this but then I would have to suspect that they would go and source out abrasive powders or compounds that are pre sized (diamond paste, lapping compound, varying SC grit sizes), The possibility of errant 240 particles of abrasive not broken down is high and it takes time to really actually break things down. Truly uniformly breaking them down would also be a challenge that gets bigger when you think of the range between 240 and 10000 grit, even the allowance of five microns of range is pretty big and very noticeable. There is a reason why there are varying lower grits of silicon carbide (and diamond compound) are sold (up to a point) and then many different micron sized diamond lapping compounds to follow. Sometimes a bit of a war appears in the machinist world when someone demoing hand lapping uses different compounds on the same plate. A system of three diamond pastes or varying silicon carbide grits plus a lower base silicon carbide grit for rougher material removal seems less mucking about and hoping that an errant bunch of silicon carbide particles doesn't force you to stay awhile trying to break them down. A few plates and a few seconds on each with a hollow ground blade seems like a quick and somewhat low maintenance setup. Get 4 brake rotors and you'll have the rough grind plate, and the three others can be equivalent to the usual 1000 - middle something maybe 4000 - whatever finish you want. They'll stay that way as long as you have a bit of powder or compound and you'll never wrack your brains over needing to do 120# work but also lots of 4000# polishing. Hollow ground blades seem particularly well suited for this sort go application but the traditional Japanese tool with its flat wide bevel and lots of mild steel or wrought iron might take some more effort and I suspect a more liberal dash of powder as the big portion jigane abrades readily and breaks down the SC faster without fresh abrasives being released like in a stone. I suppose these sort of methods have been long used in the west with stores like LV supplying everything for a quick setup like the one above. TFWW supplies some paste too I think. DMT sells them online I bet and the machinists plus rest of the vast internet will have plenty of suitable compounds and powder. So again I can see the possibility of many Japanese using a similar system for sharpening not just some flattening work but I haven't seen actual cases of this just a whisper or someone writing about something like it vaguely.

    Vince
    Last edited by Vincent Tai; 08-12-2018 at 5:31 AM.

  4. I used a small ruler and placed it on the bevel to see how flat it was. There was a tiny bit of room between the ruler and the bevel at the beginning and the end of the bevel. Another thing I noticed is that the soft steel of my Japanese blades is now a completely even light grey whereas before it was a bit blotchy.

    Edit: A good friend introduced me to Stan Covington and I'm so glad he did. I love the oire nomis he recommended me. They're very hard (harder than the Kikuhiromarus I used to have) and tough and very close to my father's Ichihiro oire nomis.
    Last edited by Jessica de Boer; 08-12-2018 at 6:48 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    Stanley Covington recently told me about an experiment that was done at a university in Japan on a convex vs a flat bevel. They found it's faster to sharpen a flat bevel and there was no noticeable difference in edge retention. The bevels on my chisels have always been convex so I decided to see if I can get them completely flat or at least very close to flat. I found it impossible to create a truly flat bevel by freehand sharpening them but I'm very close. My bevels still have a tiny bit of convexity, maybe 0.25mm but I have already noticed a difference in speed of sharpening. It's now much easier to erase the scratch marks of the previous stone as I work my way up in grit size. I have ordered a Richard Kell Nr.2 honing guide and my plan is now to do the initial sharpening with the guide on the coarse grits to create a flat bevel (and keep it flat), and do the finer grits freehand. I'm also going to make a block with several stops so I can easily set the distance I need for my oire, usu and atsu nomis.
    Jessica; good to hear Stan still spreading knowledge. Better yet that it's reaching us. Thanks for that. I've always found it to be illogical that purposefully removing more metal and rounding the bevel and making a bigger area to abrade for the sake of abrading it was suppose to be faster or easier. This sort of business would definitely really hamper with the Hagane-Jigane relationship that is already self jigging but very different in hardness. You're getting a lot flatter bevels then me, I need to really put in a few weeks of intensive woodworking and sharpening and try to get near; metalworking has taken up the vast majority of my recent hours and I fear my paltry skills for woodworking and true flat bevel sharpening gets weaker each day. Some days I wonder how on earth am I going to become a professional maker the way I'm stumbling about this world yet to make a single item fit for sale. Yikes TMI and ranting, symptoms of sleep deprivation. Moving on; the Richard Kell No2 looks nice and much more manageable then No 1 with the small original rollers. Rob Pocaro generously gave me a No 1 for free when I bought his shapton set a while ago and it was pretty invaluable when I set up my Kikuhiromaru chisels, the smaller sizes had bevels ground askew slightly and an eclipse style jig and the MKII original had no chance of working. It was painfully slow going though with the Kell No1 as there was just this perfect storm of angle and roller size plus its general size which meant I couldn't really hold it well with and it wanted to vibrate starting at the top of the chisel handle if I applied heavier pressure when grinding on a diamond plate. I think the No2 may escape that with its tweaks and proportions. the usual block with stops used for Eclipse style jigs won't work for the Kell guide; you'll know why as soon as you look at the guide and then the block. I just realized you probably knew that. I think I'll stop my incoherent typing. I should stay off the internet at night and go try and get some chisels balancing on their bevel on a stone instead. Please let us know how you like the No2 in use with your various Japanese chisels.

    Thanks,

    Vince

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Tai View Post
    Chris, I know of the use of Kanaban (flattening plate) with silicon carbide abrasive powder as a way to flatten and somewhat pre polish tool backs. This is fast and somewhat gets rid of the problem of water stones going out of flat too quickly and affecting the tool back. I can see the possibility of some bevel work with the kanaban but not as a mainstream thing in Japan. All the YT vids I know of that show the use of the Kanaban also show instructors or the craftsman go to their water stones and work the backs some more and make a point of establishing good bevels and a nice finish with diamond and waterstones (videos by the tracestudy channel etc). So do the various craftsmen and smiths I follow on social media. I have heard whispers but unconfirmed of using the method you've mentioned as a way to sharpen in Japan. I hesitate to accept that a lot of Japanese don't use stones and use this method, but then the world is pretty big. I may very well be hopelessly ignorant. Do you have any info on the course (Japanese course?) or it's teacher? I always like going to read about this sort of thing.

    I think I have seen one video of the making of a kanna where in the rough bevel shaping stages after hardening and some adjustments a jig and SC powder on plate setup was used to flatten the bevel. The blade was then worked again on the back with the plate and then run through the usual progression of water stones.

    I did briefly experiment with SC grit and some other powdered stuff on a substrate as a sharpening method, this was in junior high before I really got into hand tools. I really didn't like it. I was also oblivious to what good sharpening technique was so a lot of it was probably newbie influenced. A certain odd rounding bevel technique I had watched wasn't helping either. I didn't know of hollow grinding then but even now with most of my western tools hollow ground off a CBN setup running them quickly through 3 stones in a few seconds is more attractive an option to me. I still like SC grit and diamond compounds for lapping or putting silky finishes on steel.

    I can see the possibility of some Japanese folks doing this but then I would have to suspect that they would go and source out abrasive powders or compounds that are pre sized (diamond paste, lapping compound, varying SC grit sizes), The possibility of errant 240 particles of abrasive not broken down is high and it takes time to really actually break things down. Truly uniformly breaking them down would also be a challenge that gets bigger when you think of the range between 240 and 10000 grit, even the allowance of five microns of range is pretty big and very noticeable. There is a reason why there are varying lower grits of silicon carbide (and diamond compound) are sold (up to a point) and then many different micron sized diamond lapping compounds to follow. Sometimes a bit of a war appears in the machinist world when someone demoing hand lapping uses different compounds on the same plate. A system of three diamond pastes or varying silicon carbide grits plus a lower base silicon carbide grit for rougher material removal seems less mucking about and hoping that an errant bunch of silicon carbide particles doesn't force you to stay awhile trying to break them down. A few plates and a few seconds on each with a hollow ground blade seems like a quick and somewhat low maintenance setup. Get 4 brake rotors and you'll have the rough grind plate, and the three others can be equivalent to the usual 1000 - middle something maybe 4000 - whatever finish you want. They'll stay that way as long as you have a bit of powder or compound and you'll never wrack your brains over needing to do 120# work but also lots of 4000# polishing. Hollow ground blades seem particularly well suited for this sort go application but the traditional Japanese tool with its flat wide bevel and lots of mild steel or wrought iron might take some more effort and I suspect a more liberal dash of powder as the big portion jigane abrades readily and breaks down the SC faster without fresh abrasives being released like in a stone. I suppose these sort of methods have been long used in the west with stores like LV supplying everything for a quick setup like the one above. TFWW supplies some paste too I think. DMT sells them online I bet and the machinists plus rest of the vast internet will have plenty of suitable compounds and powder. So again I can see the possibility of many Japanese using a similar system for sharpening not just some flattening work but I haven't seen actual cases of this just a whisper or someone writing about something like it vaguely.

    Vince
    Vince, I can't disagree with all you have written as I have only started in the last week to investigate the methods I have outlined so read my experience with that in mind. Using the SC powder I don't think takes all that long when the overall time taken to prepare and use stones is taken in total compared to putting a bit of powder on a piece of cast iron and starting to sharpen. I have not tried to use the method to flatten the back as at the moment I do not have the need so I can't comment on the result. To me it was all about seeing what happens and did it have the potential to sharpen a blade to quite a high standard and having dine only two blades the answer is a guarded yes. The simplicity of it and the extremely low cost for somebody just starting out was also a factor I wanted to explore as I think the subject is simply over complicated by all the experts who think the method they use is the world's best and every other method is a total waste of time. I have diamond paste here to further the experiment when I have finished with the SC powder. If I was pressed I would say bang for the buck SI powder is a winner as it costs next to nothing to set up.

    One thing I did not make clear was that my experiment was on western chisels which is where this thread started.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    Stanley Covington recently told me about an experiment that was done at a university in Japan on a convex vs a flat bevel. They found it's faster to sharpen a flat bevel and there was no noticeable difference in edge retention. The bevels on my chisels have always been convex so I decided to see if I can get them completely flat or at least very close to flat. I found it impossible to create a truly flat bevel by freehand sharpening them but I'm very close. My bevels still have a tiny bit of convexity, maybe 0.25mm but I have already noticed a difference in speed of sharpening. It's now much easier to erase the scratch marks of the previous stone as I work my way up in grit size. I have ordered a Richard Kell Nr.2 honing guide and my plan is now to do the initial sharpening with the guide on the coarse grits to create a flat bevel (and keep it flat), and do the finer grits freehand. I'm also going to make a block with several stops so I can easily set the distance I need for my oire, usu and atsu nomis.
    Hi Jessica

    I use mainly Koyamaichi for dovetails and joinery and Kiyohisa slicks for paring. These are freehanded on the flat using Shapton 1000 and Sigma 6000 and 13000. (These are treated differently from my Western chisels and plane blades which I hollow grind on a CBN wheel and may then use Spyderco Medium and UF, and finish on green compound on hardwood).

    I have used all the honing guides and the Kell is one of my least favourite. It is difficult to set up and uncomfortable to hold, which affect control. The best honing guide for those that predominantly freehand sharpen (because it mimics freehand side sharpening), and was designed with Japanese blades in mind, is the Sharp Skate. I have Mk1, and reviewed this in 2007 (!). It was sent to me by the designer and seller, Harrelson Stanley. He still makes them - I think that they must be in Mark 5 by now - but you would need to Google for him and them.

    Link to my (old) review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...p%20Skate.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 08-12-2018 at 8:11 AM.

  8. #38
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    Using SC powder and a flat plate is not uncommon but it’s my understanding that it is only for rough work.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    Stanley Covington recently told me about an experiment that was done at a university in Japan on a convex vs a flat bevel. They found it's faster to sharpen a flat bevel and there was no noticeable difference in edge retention. The bevels on my chisels have always been convex so I decided to see if I can get them completely flat or at least very close to flat. I found it impossible to create a truly flat bevel by freehand sharpening them but I'm very close. My bevels still have a tiny bit of convexity, maybe 0.25mm but I have already noticed a difference in speed of sharpening. It's now much easier to erase the scratch marks of the previous stone as I work my way up in grit size. I have ordered a Richard Kell Nr.2 honing guide and my plan is now to do the initial sharpening with the guide on the coarse grits to create a flat bevel (and keep it flat), and do the finer grits freehand. I'm also going to make a block with several stops so I can easily set the distance I need for my oire, usu and atsu nomis.
    How do you hold your chisels when sharpening? If I'm going for completely flat, I usually skew mine which helps a lot with rocking. It's easy to get dead flat that way -- flat enough, at least, that the bevel sticks to the stone via suction.

    I actually like a tiny, tiny bit of roundedness to my bevel in order to combat that "suction" problem: a perfectly flat bevel can really stick to the stone and add a lot of friction.

    I'm yet to ultimately decide whether I like convex versus flat bevels. I tend to sharpen my western tools with a slightly convex bevel, and my Japanese tools flat. For thin western plane irons, though, I don't see any benefit in trying to hold them perfectly flat or hollow grinding: a convex bevel is perfectly suited to thin bevels which don't offer a substantial registration face. The same applies to thin double bevel knives, such as gyuto.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Luke Dupont View Post
    How do you hold your chisels when sharpening?
    I hold them at the neck directly above the blade to keep the angle steady and I press down on the bevel with my left index finger. I also skew it to create a larger surface area that makes contact with the stone. How do you hold it?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    I hold them at the neck directly above the blade to keep the angle steady and I press down on the bevel with my left index finger. I also skew it to create a larger surface area that makes contact with the stone. How do you hold it?
    Ah, sounds like we hold it in exactly the same way.

    It's probably not anything wrong with your technique -- just that it takes a while to get it completely flat. I'm sure the slight convexity will disappear in time, or if you go to a coarser stone.

    I usually go to a coarse oil stone around 300-400 grit for such work. Diamond stones of similar grit will work too, but I find them to be slower and wear out on hard Japanese steels.

  12. #42
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    Alternating skew (diagonal) and side-to-side for most chisels. Fingers on leading (left) hand around the blade and pressing down on the bevel, and right hand guiding at the neck. The exception is when honing narrow chisels, say 1/4" and under. Then I press them flat and pull straight back, with the right hand lower down.

    I am sure that there are as many variations as sharpening methods

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Tai View Post
    Jessica; good to hear Stan still spreading knowledge. Better yet that it's reaching us. Thanks for that. I've always found it to be illogical that purposefully removing more metal and rounding the bevel and making a bigger area to abrade for the sake of abrading it was suppose to be faster or easier. [...]

    Vince
    Just to explain, I have no stick in this fight

    The idea about the convex bevel is removing metal on a coarse stone that will have to be removed in the future anyway. And because you don't need much precision you can go at it at a more brisk speed, also quicker because the stone used is coarse. I don't know how that research was caried out (quoting just the conclusion of a research without the details of the methods used, leads often to wrong ideas). But when you start with a flat or concave bevel, then yes, a convex bevel will take more time because you need to remove more metal. But over a 100 sharpenings a convex bevel might well be quicker overall.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Luke Dupont View Post
    It's probably not anything wrong with your technique -- just that it takes a while to get it completely flat.
    The bevels are a tiny bit convex. I'm not sure making them dead flat will offer an additional significant improvement.

    Diamond stones of similar grit will work too, but I find them to be slower and wear out on hard Japanese steels.
    My father has been using Atoma plates since forever for his Ichihiros and they usually last him 4-5 years. Given that a replacement sheet is just 35-40 Euros I'd say that's very economical. And they actually get faster as the diamonds level out, especially the 400 and 600 grit plates.
    Last edited by Jessica de Boer; 08-13-2018 at 6:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    Just to explain, I have no stick in this fight

    The idea about the convex bevel is removing metal on a coarse stone that will have to be removed in the future anyway. And because you don't need much precision you can go at it at a more brisk speed, also quicker because the stone used is coarse. I don't know how that research was caried out (quoting just the conclusion of a research without the details of the methods used, leads often to wrong ideas). But when you start with a flat or concave bevel, then yes, a convex bevel will take more time because you need to remove more metal. But over a 100 sharpenings a convex bevel might well be quicker overall.
    Hi Kees,
    I know the thought process of it’s going to be removed so remove it anyways. I don’t agree with it because the extra effort to dip to round is wasted effort since this removal isn’t helping with anything; not promoting a self jig like a hollow grind, and it is repeated every time so there is no break or catchup of breathing air to allow the steel removed to act as a space for the actual cutting edge angle to expand to like it does in the normal honing guide world.

    To clarify I also sharpen using convex bevels quite a bit, on thinner irons like the original Stanley’s. Often I am sharpening with two irons; one in each hand and going at a very brisk pace. I hold the irons at around 30 and go for it. Biased pressure when on fine stone. The convexity is not something I particularly aim for just a side effect. It is slight and even but noticeable. I do not have a problem with this sort of thing, I am nowhere near purist enough to. But when I see people dipping to 25-20-15 degrees and then coming back to 35 or more I scratch my head. Even 100 sharpenings later they will still be wasting effort and have wasted every single time. This continues right up to 40 years later until they can’t do this anymore because the chisel might be short enough for the handle to be in the way for the lowering to 15. The idea of it will be removed anyways so remove it now is negated when one dips to 15 degrees and remove this “excess” metal everytime; by the time the tool or owner has taken their last breadth there has been wasted effort. If you think about it, right up to the last bit of tool this is wasted effort. If someone promoted doing the rounding and then honing normally until the rounding is fading and repeat this that at least makes some sort of “catchup” so logically the excess metal removed has actually served a purpose, like the primary to microbevel relationship in the honing guide and grinder world. But this does not take place, there is a constant “excess” metal removal. There is no get rid of some steel and focus on the edge and then get rid of some more later in a few days, there is get rid of some steel every honing. This get rid of some steel every time never pays itself off, there is no time saved, no breathing room time for one to focus on the leading edge for a few days. I could go on forever. If we took this logic and implemented into a honing guide; grind the 25 degree primary every honing session and then hone the microbevel you can see how ridiculous that sounds. Granted there is much less fussing about doing it by hand but nevertheless even when there is only a mm of tool steel left, a normal hold around 30 and let it be will have wasted less time then a let’s rock it from 15-30 every-time as when they are removing “excess” steel right up till the the death of the tool. This is a stage where it won’t matter and no gain has been found except waste because now you’ve end up with the same big round bevel that hasn’t actually made anything faster because one removes the same big amount everytime. Now when compared; the hold it around 30 bevel on a dead tool has a tidy bevel size, where as the rock it and swing it bevel has a big bevel it has always had with “excess” steel removed and this will be a culmination and symbol of the wasted effort as right up to the end this strategy has never paid itself off.

    I also don’t understand how rocking the tool about help sell a beginner or is self jigging, the videos that promoted this along with sandpaper sharpening almost singlehandedly stopped me from ever trying to sharpen a hand tool again, as a beginner these techniques were detrimental to my progress. I literally didn’t properly take a look at handtools again until a year later when I was 14.
    Obviously with practice one can become adept at this rounding bevel and I could do it now with about 30 seconds of adjustment time but I wouldn’t waste time. It’s like trying to teach a person to do body waves while driving, sure it’s possible and once you can figure out the things needed so you won’t swerve you can do it consistently. But why? It’s not stronger, the angle at the edge decides that, doesn’t save time, etc.

    Kees, i also don’t have a stick in this. Or at least I didn’t. Still don’t I think. No one practicing this method has offended me nor do I have the right to be offended by people doing their own thing. This also became more of a rant at some technique and guru and less a discussion with you. Sorry about that. Please don’t feel like the bulk of much of the latter is directed at you at all. I also understand some tools may benefit from a convex edge in terms of their use (carving).
    I need to stay away from sharpening threads, I get itchy these days.
    Well in the end if it’s sharp I guess that’s all that really matters.

    happy sharpening,

    Vince
    Last edited by Vincent Tai; 08-13-2018 at 2:28 PM.

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