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Thread: What do you store home made wipe on varnish in?

  1. #1
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    What do you store home made wipe on varnish in?

    Varnish always comes in metal cans. Is that because it is light sensitive or oxygen sensitive? Or it is just traditional?

    I am about to make up some wipe on, and don't have a metal can. I took a white plastic soap bottle and spray painted it brown. Stored in a room that gets no sun light, is that likely to be adequate? If not, where does one find a metal can?

    I probably have stain I won't ever use; if it comes to that, but it isn't really user friendly.

  2. #2
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    Mason or Ball jars used for canning. Inexpensive, readily available and come in a variety of capacities and mouth sizes.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    ... where does one find a metal can?
    ...
    I've bought empty metal cans from Home Depot and a paint store. You can also buy them from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...pty+metal+cans

    Empty metal solvent cans with screw-on lids work nicely. (Old solvent cans are a lot easier to clean than old finish cans.)

    I believe it is primarily the oxygen in the air that causes finishes to degrade. I don't know how much light contributes to the problem. Unless very thick or specially formulated, plastic will allow air to pass through the sides decreasing shelf life - metal will not. To make stored finishes last "forever", I displace the air in every can with inert gas each time I close the can.

    JKJ

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    I use StopLossBags.

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    I also use the Stop Loss bags, available from Lee Valley, Woodcraft and Amazon.

    I keep several different finishes in Stop Loss bags. I store all the bags in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it. The bucket keeps the light out and also serves as "secondary containment", i.e. will keep any spill from spreading if one of the bags fails. I should say that I've not had any bags that leaked.

    The main reasons I use stop loss bags are 1. The finish stays fresh longer (due to ability to keep air/oxygen away during storage) and 2. The finish is easier to dispense from the bag than from a can.

  6. #6
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    If you opt to use metal cans, you might want to take a look at Bloxygen. It's a spray can of pure, inert, compressed argon that displaces the air in the bottles and cans. All you do is give it a 1- or 2-second shot and put the lid on. I use it for finishes, wine, beer, port, and anything else that doesn't play nice with air.

    I order mine on Amazon. Since it doesn't have any flammable propellant, they ship to me here in Alaska without issues.
    Brett
    Peters Creek, Alaska

    Man is a tool-using animal. Nowhere do you find him without tools; without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all. — Thomas Carlyle (1795-1881)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Luna View Post
    If you opt to use metal cans, you might want to take a look at Bloxygen. It's a spray can of pure, inert, compressed argon that displaces the air in the bottles and cans. All you do is give it a 1- or 2-second shot and put the lid on. I use it for finishes, wine, beer, port, and anything else that doesn't play nice with air.
    As well as metal cans it works with plastic bottles and bags too. (Keeps TruOil from setting up - a huge endorsement.) I used to use Bloxygen until I switched to a spare tank of inert gas from my little welding shop. The cost of the tank and regulator is significant but the gas refill is incredibly cheap and one small tank will last for years, even when used on other non-shop things.

    JKJ

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bunge View Post
    I also use the Stop Loss bags, available from Lee Valley, Woodcraft and Amazon.

    I keep several different finishes in Stop Loss bags. I store all the bags in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it. The bucket keeps the light out and also serves as "secondary containment", i.e. will keep any spill from spreading if one of the bags fails. I should say that I've not had any bags that leaked.

    The main reasons I use stop loss bags are 1. The finish stays fresh longer (due to ability to keep air/oxygen away during storage) and 2. The finish is easier to dispense from the bag than from a can.
    I have also used Stop Loss Bags with good results. They can be rinsed and reused until you feel it's worth going to a new bag. And I agree that it's easier than pouring from a can unless you are pouring a more than a few ounces.

    Storing them in a 5 gal lidded bucket is a great idea. Although they are air tight, the ones I have found are clear. I've wondered why they aren't tinted or if the plastic is UV filtering. No mention on their website.
    RD

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Dooling View Post
    I've wondered why they aren't tinted or if the plastic is UV filtering. No mention on their website.
    At one time I attempted to find information on how UV light affected liquid finishes such as oils and varnishes. Although I've read warnings and claims from individuals that it does, I could find nothing from manufacturers or laboratories. However, nearly everyone was in agreement that oxidation caused finishes in cans and bottles to go bad, curing in the container. People go to great length to protect from air and the oxygen in it - filling cans with marbles, bags, inert gas, etc. - and it works.

    If UV is not the problem it would explain why the bag company is does not see the need to protect from it. Perhaps someone can point to research or technical information about UV light and stored finishes. If not, it's probably safe to ignore it.

    JKJ

  10. #10
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    I'm a Mason jar guy, too, usually with a piece of waxed paper under the lid. I try not to make up any more than I need for a given project, but have stored it successfully for some months, too.

  11. #11
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    I like to use the squeeze bottles from Darma Trading Co https://www.dharmatrading.com/tools/...-and-caps.html The larger bottles are used for bulk mix and then transferred to smaller bottles when doing finish work. The Yorker caps work well to seal and allow squeezing out most of the air.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Aubuchon View Post
    I use StopLossBags.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bunge View Post
    I also use the Stop Loss bags, available from Lee Valley, Woodcraft and Amazon.

    I keep several different finishes in Stop Loss bags. I store all the bags in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it. The bucket keeps the light out and also serves as "secondary containment", i.e. will keep any spill from spreading if one of the bags fails. I should say that I've not had any bags that leaked.

    The main reasons I use stop loss bags are 1. The finish stays fresh longer (due to ability to keep air/oxygen away during storage) and 2. The finish is easier to dispense from the bag than from a can.
    It is good to hear that you guys have not experienced any failures with StopLossBags. I had asked Lee Valley about storing General Finishes ARS in them and received the following reply:

    "While these Finish Bags are meant for use with oil-, water- and alcohol-based finishes, they are not suitable for anything containing methyl ethyl ketone, lacquer thinner, or acetone. With the solvent and petroleum components in the Arm-R-Seal, we would not recommend storing it in these Finish Bags."

    My bags have sat in a box unused as I fear storing almost any type of finish that I use based on this response. It seemed odd to me that the manufacturer would use materials that were problematic with these chemicals. Is LV off base on this one? What sort of oil based finishes are you guys storing?
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    What sort of oil based finishes are you guys storing?
    Currently:

    Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish
    Wiping polyurethane: ˝ Minwax fast drying poly clear satin, ˝ mineral spirits
    Penofin Ultra Premium Stain
    Minwax Super Fast Drying Poly for Floors, gloss. V.O.C. compliant
    General Finishes Seal-a-Cell, original wipe-on formula

  14. #14
    You can get lucky with some oil based varnishes in plastic but glass is the best. In fact, metal is not an appropriate choice unless it is lined with something like epoxy it phenolic resin.

    There are many different types of “plastic”. They are not impermeable to all chemicals in all varnishes. Glass is.

    If you are making your own varnish, my advice is make as much as you need just for the project.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    If you are making your own varnish, my advice is make as much as you need just for the project.
    This is why the Ball jars work well for me. You can decant the remainder of the source products that you use to make the required amount of mix into a jar that closely matches the size required. Less air and a reliable storage container.

    If the storage is likely to be long term, say several months, I will wipe the threads and seals with a very light film of petroleum jelly to make the container easy to open when the time comes. I can't remember the last time I had a finishing supply go bad.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

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