Originally Posted by Mark Bolton
Super cool Mark. Would love it if you snapped a picture of that some time when you're doing it. I've been tempted to do it in the past, but never screwed up the courage to and often found another way, like with moulded pressures or something.
Contributor
Ive always done the same, but by the time you get done making the reverse molded pressure plates you could just machine away the wheels and if there is anything left save them for another profile. If not, your out 2 40 dollar wheels. I cant make an intricate reverse profile (without the expense of cutters) for 80 bucks. With the CNC now we can run reverse profiles all day long but having the feed and hold down right at the cutter has been nice the couple times we've needed it.
Member
Let me go on record saying we need more shaper threads, they usually turn out to be some of the most insightful. I'll add a shout out to the SMC community as well, ask this question on pretty much any other forum except maybe 2 and you would get crickets.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
[OP]
Contributor
It is possible that ShopGear's solution is to get the Comatic feeders sans-wheels and add another vendors. I reread what I wrote, and although I gave the impression that Comatic was supplying the newer wheels, from my discussion with ShopGear that may or may not be the case. He wasn't clear on the newer wheel source, just that they hope they will be able to supply feeders in 2019 with poly wheels, without the end user having to throw out the stock wheels.
Mark McFarlane
Hi Mike, here's some pics. This is the small Combi head with the regular CMT, Dima cutters in it.
20180803_153006.jpg
Another set in there on a different angle.
20180803_153933.jpg
Same set in the big combi head.
20180803_153722.jpg
Different angle.
20180803_153700.jpg
So as you Can see, a lot of the profile gets lost in the head.
B
Contributor
no muss no fuss hand fed this stuff and serrated longer than most of my friends kids have been alive. Never gets sucked in or any of the evil things you are led to believe. Kick back, why. Glad I got brought up old school,. I can see the value in the new stuff for some things and its limitations as well and the new stuff has as many limitations as the old, just different.
Capture.jpg
Contributor
Yes he did Mike.
I used the photo of yours in the shaper seminar............Rod.
Contributor
Van
I think that there is a wide enough cross section of folks here to support discussions like this. Guys like Martin make their living with one and bring that production efficiency insight. Others make cabinets as a side of their profession.Then there are a lot of folks in between. People bring different insights to the discussion. It's healthy.
The shaper is a much maligned machinefor some odd reason, which I've never understood. Maybe there is a misconception that it's only use is to make rails,stiles, and raised panels for doors??? Or that you have $10K-$15K invested in one to even start. I don't know?
A light duty shaper, 3HP min, is a very versatile machine in the home hobbyist shop. Insert cutter heads have brought the cost of operating one way down. Not router bit cheap, but not really that far off either. You'll never match a production shop with a light duty shaper, but the single person, in a home shop, can still produce quality material. It just takes a little more time, and possibly some additional steps.
It still boggles my mind at all the various cutters, and configurations, out there. Maybe that's an aspect that intimidates folks, just trying to figure out which cutters they should own??? Which is kind of what started off this thread.
Last edited by Mike Cutler; 08-04-2018 at 8:07 AM.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
[OP]
Contributor
Shapers do have their own language for parts and use. Researching cutters was a bit time-consuming for me, but probably not any worse than saw blades: Grind type? Material? Kerf width? I suspect people like myself typically start out with a $20-40 saw blade and then learn more over years/decades of use. The price of entry for shaper tooling is an order of magnitude higher, and has its own language: corrugated, insert, MEC, MAN, ...
I don't remember Norm every using a real shaper, maybe that's the problem.
Mark McFarlane
Guest
Mark, Good info on the DC40. I've got one showing up next week since I stole the feeder off of my spare shaper that we use for odd ball stuff to put it on a tablesaw, now dedicated to cutting the groove for bottoms in drawer parts.
What really ticks me off is I ordered two new Steff feeders right after the DC feeders came out. I didn't know about them yet.
I disagree with not being money well spent when it comes to a dedicated setup. Frequently I've had to use a slower feed rate than either what I felt was correct, or the chip load calculations dictated. Being able to fine tune that is money well spent in the long run in my opinion.
Member
That would be one more that I'd even expect.
Back when I got my first shaper (never having used one before) I poured over old threads here and on woodweb. There is a lot of good information in the archives.
Member
I think that's where a lot of heartburn occurs. If you are just starting out and trying to maximize the utility of the shaper with a small assortment of tooling you can get caught up in trying to figure out where the biggest return on your money would be. Should you buy cheap import braised carbide, a Euroblock or maybe a corrugated head.
Then you realise there are more things out there like lock edge and bevel edge heads that no one really talks about (much) in fourms like these.
Once you have a pile of heads, adding more seems to happen without much difficult.
Contributor
MarkShapers do have their own language for parts and use. Researching cutters was a bit time-consuming for me, but probably not any worse than saw blades: Grind type? Material? Kerf width? I suspect people like myself typically start out with a $20-40 saw blade and then learn more over years/decades of use. The price of entry for shaper tooling is an order of magnitude higher, and has its own language: corrugated, insert, MEC, MAN, ...
I don't remember Norm every using a real shaper, maybe that's the problem
Definitely an array to chose from.
The cutter heads can be pricey, but there are some that should be "standard" for a home shop. Rebate cutter, T&G set, reversible glue edge. some basic edge profiles, groovers, and such. CMT makes a nice insert head system for small shapers. Cut's the cost way down.
For making cabinets, it's just a personal choice, and how much you want to spend. Infinity, Freeborn, Freud, Amana,etc, make all the basic styles.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
Contributor
Thanks for the pictures Brent.
The great thing about the taller knives (55mm) is you can get the cope and stick profiles on the one knife (for normal door thicknesses) which saves money. Easy to get two different beads on one knife too. I have a set of knives for my 40mm head that has four different roundover profiles on one knife. I expect with the taller knives and the thicker steel which gives you more projection, you might be able to get a set of knives made that give you 6 or 8 different radii on one knife. Suddenly the cost compared to router bits swings the other direction, with the bonus being better cut quality on a machine that's nicer to use. Same can be done for cove cutters.
Before I got my first shaper, I did the router table thing like everyone else. Now I have a combi head, an adjustable groover and a panel raiser plus a bunch of knives and almost never use my router table anymore. I easily have more money sitting idle in router bits than I have in shaper tooling but now I get much better finishes on machines with better dust collection that are nicer to use.
In fairness, a commercial shop would benefit from some dedicated heads that I just have knives for (glue joint, common cabinet door profiles, common round overs, etc etc) and they would certainly spend a lot more money, but ought to have the revenue to support it.
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