Limiter shaper tooling (MAN) discussion

[mark mcfarlane]

Background: I'm about to purchase my first shaper tooling for a 5HP Minimax CU300 combo machine with 1 1/4" spindle. I also purchased a Minimax articulating arm to hold a stock feeder (swings out of the way), but haven't installed the 'swing arm' yet (it came with no instructions and I haven't spent the 30 minutes to figure it out).

I don't currently own a stock feeder, and wouldn't mind avoiding the cost, although the swing arm was as expensive as a small stock feeder, so I am half way there...

> I'm trying to select a steel insert head to purchase, and am trying to decide between a MAN rated head with limiters and a more traditional US style insert head without limiters. The head would initially be used without a stock feeder.

Question: If the limiter is ~1mm 'short of' the cutter head, does that mean that the maximum depth of cut is ~1mm per pass? So, it would take 6 passes to cut a 6mm groove? It seems like the limiter insert would 'kick out the wood from the fence' if you tried to make a depth of cut that exceeds the offset between the limiter and cutting knives, but hopefully I am missing something here.

Thanks for the help,

Mark

[brent stanley]

Hi Mark, the better way to think of it is that it limits the amount of material that can be removed in every rotation of the block. But of course since it's doing thousands of rotations per minute, you're just fine. For quality results you find a sweet spot between feeding too slow (burnishing the wood) and too fast which can over tax your machine and/or give you ugly knife marks. The limiter tooling is designed to allow you to work within quite a range of feed speed scenarios and find that sweet spot just fine. Limiter tooling will certainly allow 6mm DOC in one pass if all other factors allow/support it.

B

[brent stanley]

Also, you should note that even if they don't have limiters, any MAN rated tooling will still be chip limiting, it may just use the body of the cutter as the limiter. Which means you're in the same boat regarding feed speeds, chip loading, removal rates per pass etc.

You will definitely want a MAN rated head regardless, especially if you don't have a feeder.

[David Kumm]

If this is your first shaper, buy the feeder first. There is a comfort to getting used to the machine with that big feeder acting as a guard and seeing what speed hits the sweet spot with each cutter. When you get used to that, some hand feeding will happen but I still use the feeder for anything but end copes. Dave

[Van Huskey]

If this is your first shaper, buy the feeder first. There is a comfort to getting used to the machine with that big feeder acting as a guard and seeing what speed hits the sweet spot with each cutter. When you get used to that, some hand feeding will happen but I still use the feeder for anything but end copes. Dave

This^. I need more characters so This^ again.

[brent stanley]

Yup, you'll never regret having a feeder. Get one if you can. There's still a lot of value in MAN rated tooling though, so keep on that path.

B

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, as others have indicated buy the MAN rated tooling, it will cut just as deep and fast as MEC tooling, with far lower risk of kickback and injury.

I also second the stock feeder, safer and superior results.

In the shaper seminars I teach for Felder I also stress the importance of a finger kit to support work past the fence opening, or the use of a solid fence made using the cutter breakthrough method......You're really going to enjoy the shaper.

If you're in Toronto on September 22 I can reserve a spot for you in the seminar......Rod.

[Joe Jensen]

If you have only previously used a router table without a feeder, your mind will be blown. But you must have a Feeder.

[Van Huskey]

In the shaper seminars I teach for Felder I also stress the importance of a finger kit to support work past the fence opening,

I wish there were cheaper options for the finger kit. Tooling for extrusions isn't cheap though.

[brent stanley]

I wish there were cheaper options for the finger kit. Tooling for extrusions isn't cheap though.

While the finger kit would be nice, I think the breakthrough fence is even better in some situations as it offers more support (not much difference to be fair) and gives you zero clearance which can help.

[Van Huskey]

While the finger kit would be nice, I think the breakthrough fence is even better in some situations as it offers more support (not much difference to be fair) and gives you zero clearance which can help.

I agree, the only issue it is a pain to make one for one or a few cuts when building furniture. The day I saw a Martin Autolock with an Aigner fence was like the day I saw my first Ferrari. I knew immediately I wanted one but would never have the money and/or justification to buy one.

[brent stanley]

I agree, the only issue it is a pain to make one for one or a few cuts when building furniture. The day I saw a Martin Autolock with an Aigner fence was like the day I saw my first Ferrari. I knew immediately I wanted one but would never have the money and/or justification to buy one.

I made one like the one shown in this video and just batch produced a bunch of fence opening filler pieces, so it's pretty quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Kqxl1P3EY

B

[Mike Delyster]

I wish there were cheaper options for the finger kit. Tooling for extrusions isn't cheap though.

I’m a little late to the discussion, but I’ve used the Felder/Hammer Safety Bar kit on a couple of shapers.
Not as handy as the Aigner, but not as costly either. I believe SCM all so make bars similar to these.
http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US...ction-set.html

Here are a couple of pictures, I all so make breakthrough inserts to put in place of the bars similar to what Brent does.

[Van Huskey]

I’m a little late to the discussion, but I’ve used the Felder/Hammer Safety Bar kit on a couple of shapers.
Not as handy as the Aigner, but not as costly either. I believe SCM all so make bars similar to these.
http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US...ction-set.html

Here are a couple of pictures, I all so make breakthrough inserts to put in place of the bars similar to what Brent does.

This is what I love about SMC, even thread jacks bring tons of great information, that and it helps me spend my money, however, that part I usually don't have much trouble with...

You answered in a followup that they add the hardware to connect to a wood fence which is great and I was going to ask how much trouble it was. Plus with the tenon you can switch from fingers to breakthrough quickly and painlessly. Thanks for the post!!!

[brent stanley]

This is what I love about SMC, even thread jacks bring tons of great information, that and it helps me spend my money, however, that part I usually don't have much trouble with...

You answered in a followup that they add the hardware to connect to a wood fence which is great and I was going to ask how much trouble it was. Plus with the tenon you can switch from fingers to breakthrough quickly and painlessly. Thanks for the post!!!

Exactly, this is great information! My wife has my wallet hidden somewhere though. She saw the look on my face when I was looking at the Felder site and somehow knew what was up. Gotta work on the poker face.....