Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 115

Thread: Limiter shaper tooling (MAN) discussion

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Houston, Texas area
    Posts
    875

    Limiter shaper tooling (MAN) discussion

    Background: I'm about to purchase my first shaper tooling for a 5HP Minimax CU300 combo machine with 1 1/4" spindle. I also purchased a Minimax articulating arm to hold a stock feeder (swings out of the way), but haven't installed the 'swing arm' yet (it came with no instructions and I haven't spent the 30 minutes to figure it out).

    I don't currently own a stock feeder, and wouldn't mind avoiding the cost, although the swing arm was as expensive as a small stock feeder, so I am half way there...

    > I'm trying to select a steel insert head to purchase, and am trying to decide between a MAN rated head with limiters and a more traditional US style insert head without limiters. The head would initially be used without a stock feeder.

    Question: If the limiter is ~1mm 'short of' the cutter head, does that mean that the maximum depth of cut is ~1mm per pass? So, it would take 6 passes to cut a 6mm groove? It seems like the limiter insert would 'kick out the wood from the fence' if you tried to make a depth of cut that exceeds the offset between the limiter and cutting knives, but hopefully I am missing something here.

    Thanks for the help,

    Mark
    Mark McFarlane

  2. #2
    Hi Mark, the better way to think of it is that it limits the amount of material that can be removed in every rotation of the block. But of course since it's doing thousands of rotations per minute, you're just fine. For quality results you find a sweet spot between feeding too slow (burnishing the wood) and too fast which can over tax your machine and/or give you ugly knife marks. The limiter tooling is designed to allow you to work within quite a range of feed speed scenarios and find that sweet spot just fine. Limiter tooling will certainly allow 6mm DOC in one pass if all other factors allow/support it.

    B
    Last edited by brent stanley; 07-30-2018 at 1:53 PM. Reason: Typo

  3. #3
    Also, you should note that even if they don't have limiters, any MAN rated tooling will still be chip limiting, it may just use the body of the cutter as the limiter. Which means you're in the same boat regarding feed speeds, chip loading, removal rates per pass etc.

    You will definitely want a MAN rated head regardless, especially if you don't have a feeder.
    Last edited by brent stanley; 07-30-2018 at 2:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    4,880
    If this is your first shaper, buy the feeder first. There is a comfort to getting used to the machine with that big feeder acting as a guard and seeing what speed hits the sweet spot with each cutter. When you get used to that, some hand feeding will happen but I still use the feeder for anything but end copes. Dave

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    8,927
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    If this is your first shaper, buy the feeder first. There is a comfort to getting used to the machine with that big feeder acting as a guard and seeing what speed hits the sweet spot with each cutter. When you get used to that, some hand feeding will happen but I still use the feeder for anything but end copes. Dave
    This^. I need more characters so This^ again.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  6. #6
    Yup, you'll never regret having a feeder. Get one if you can. There's still a lot of value in MAN rated tooling though, so keep on that path.

    B

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    8,850
    Hi, as others have indicated buy the MAN rated tooling, it will cut just as deep and fast as MEC tooling, with far lower risk of kickback and injury.

    I also second the stock feeder, safer and superior results.

    In the shaper seminars I teach for Felder I also stress the importance of a finger kit to support work past the fence opening, or the use of a solid fence made using the cutter breakthrough method......You're really going to enjoy the shaper.

    If you're in Toronto on September 22 I can reserve a spot for you in the seminar......Rod.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Phoenix AZ Area
    Posts
    2,272
    If you have only previously used a router table without a feeder, your mind will be blown. But you must have a Feeder.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    8,927
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    In the shaper seminars I teach for Felder I also stress the importance of a finger kit to support work past the fence opening,
    I wish there were cheaper options for the finger kit. Tooling for extrusions isn't cheap though.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    I wish there were cheaper options for the finger kit. Tooling for extrusions isn't cheap though.
    While the finger kit would be nice, I think the breakthrough fence is even better in some situations as it offers more support (not much difference to be fair) and gives you zero clearance which can help.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    8,927
    Quote Originally Posted by brent stanley View Post
    While the finger kit would be nice, I think the breakthrough fence is even better in some situations as it offers more support (not much difference to be fair) and gives you zero clearance which can help.
    I agree, the only issue it is a pain to make one for one or a few cuts when building furniture. The day I saw a Martin Autolock with an Aigner fence was like the day I saw my first Ferrari. I knew immediately I wanted one but would never have the money and/or justification to buy one.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  12. #12
    Get a feeder. I'm usually the last person to jump on the safety Nazi bandwagon, but it's psychotic in my mind for most operations to feed a shaper by hand.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    4,541
    I am always the last person to jump on the Safety Nazi bandwagon, and I agree, get the feeder. Bonus, does a far better job that you can by hand.

  14. #14
    we were brought up on hand feeling and I enjoy it. nice sharp cutters and its as enjoyable as using a hand plane at its best. You have better feedback than a feeder because you feel the cutter cutting and you choose the speed unless you have a feeder where you can dial in any speed you want. It offers several advantages for sure. Unless your set up is right on some cuts its not going to do a far better job than by hand. Ive seen stuff off feeders that didnt match what I can do with old cutters and hand fed.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    I agree, the only issue it is a pain to make one for one or a few cuts when building furniture. The day I saw a Martin Autolock with an Aigner fence was like the day I saw my first Ferrari. I knew immediately I wanted one but would never have the money and/or justification to buy one.
    I made one like the one shown in this video and just batch produced a bunch of fence opening filler pieces, so it's pretty quick.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Kqxl1P3EY

    B

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •