ShopSabre F4 Vacuum

[Brad Shipton]

Warped plywood is terrible. You can get it flat, but once its cut it will pop up off the table. I figured out fairly quickly why so many shops love melamine. Flat, thickness consistent, and cuts like butter. I think most of the industrial shops hate the idea of onion skinning parts. To be able to cut at the speeds they want, leaving a 3/8" or 1/2" gap behind takes some serious hp. I read that post on the woodweb where the guy was finally happy with having enough hp on his vacuum.

Eugene, in all fairness to SS, I think it was inevitable they would have to come up with their own and there really is not many other motor options out there for single phase. That arrangement with BB was not destined to last. By the way, I do not own a F4, so I am only going from my discussion with them when I was looking at one. I think the real credit for the single phase vacuum goes to the guys that first started trying out this idea.

[Bruce Page]

The whole black box and F4. Reverse engineering at its best.

The same could be said for the Camaster Stinger I SR23 and the ShopSabre 23. (the Stinger came first)

[eugene thomas]

Ya Bruce. One company sure seems to copy with minor tweeks.

[James Biddle]

The copying goes both ways. The new Elite now has a steel tubing gantry and Mitsubishi drives.

[Mark Bolton]

Warped plywood is terrible. You can get it flat, but once its cut it will pop up off the table. I figured out fairly quickly why so many shops love melamine. Flat, thickness consistent, and cuts like butter. I think most of the industrial shops hate the idea of onion skinning parts. To be able to cut at the speeds they want, leaving a 3/8" or 1/2" gap behind takes some serious hp. I read that post on the woodweb where the guy was finally happy with having enough hp on his vacuum.

Eugene, in all fairness to SS, I think it was inevitable they would have to come up with their own and there really is not many other motor options out there for single phase. That arrangement with BB was not destined to last. By the way, I do not own a F4, so I am only going from my discussion with them when I was looking at one. I think the real credit for the single phase vacuum for us goes to the guys that first started trying out this idea.

That may well be true but I can honestly see where they are coming from. I am lucky to not be hamstrung into using low grade ply. We run Purebond almost exclusively but when your salesman is touting a new option that is half the price and they will ship you an initial order at full unit pricing you can quickly see why the big shops are running the low grade and buying more vacuum. If you can hold it down and get it cut who cares what it does after the fact. The assemblers and case clamps are going to make it all semi square anyway lol. I dont have the equipment and capacity to fight with twisted parts on assembly like they do but paying 50% would most definitely lure most in.

Dont know many melamine shops that bother onion skinning other than super small parts but a lot of pre-fin ply shops still do.

When we run melamine, tafisa, Uniboard, etc the vac is plenty. But again, with no case clamp, we are left with alternate (more expensive) means of assembly.

[Mark Bolton]

Ya Bruce. One company sure seems to copy with minor tweeks.

Some powerful koolaid lol. I like my heavy, all steel, machine. If I were to delve into the type and brand of wire, motors, pulleys, belts, and so on.. maybe I could swallow a sip lol. There are far more dissimilarities to me than there are similarities. Pre-purchase service was a glaring dissimilarity for me. They will all cut stuff.

[Brad Shipton]

I re-read my last post and decided I was too far off topic and I deleted it. I figured out what you were saying with the case clamps.

I think the fact you have noticed a problem with the Columbia speaks volumes. If the thickness were varying too much, it would drive you nuts with grooves in your spoilboard constantly or parts not being fully cut after running the program.

A few guys have bugged me about melamine. I do not like it all that much, but it seems to fit the bill. You have so many more options in the US for products. The local stores have little idea where their stock originates from, and the other two I order from i pretty much have two options.

By the way, my last load of cherry I ordered ended up going thru a 2 sided planer. I needed 5/4 stock, and I thought I had found someone with 5/4 rough stock. When it showed up it was clear it started as 6/4 and went thru a 2 sided planer. They did a fairly terrible job, but it still saved me a bunch of time. Your supplier must pay closer attention.