Will I actually use it... CNC that is

[Kevin Jenness]

Van, if I can do it anybody can. Just be prepared to put the time in as Gary says and accept that there will be facepalm moments.

As you get more familiar with the process it will become natural to use the cnc for things that don't seem obvious at first. There is lots of help available at the Vectric, Camheads, Shopbot and CNCZone forums as well as here.

I would recommend a larger budget for a solid manufactured unit with good resale value. Used is an option if you have someone experienced to evaluate it. I think you will be frustrated with the limited rigidity of a $2k machine.

[Jim Becker]

I would ask: do you have a thousand hours to spare over the next year to year and a half? If so, go for it! If not, think about it for a while longer until you are ready to commit.

I would vary any literal adherence to this depending on whether or not the OP is focusing on business or focusing on personal enjoyment. If the latter, there's less time constraint on devoting the time than there is when the machine investment has to start making money sooner, rather than later. And to Keith's point...one can "do stuff" pretty darn quickly with these machines early one while taking more time to learn the finesse necessary for more complex cutting.

Honestly, I think someone like Van would take to this really well...but he might have to eschew a few of his bandsaws to make room for the CNC. LOL

[Brad Shipton]

I think we have all likely read a number of Van's posts. I am more than confident he will pick this up just fine.

[Bill George]

I think we have all likely read a number of Van's posts. I am more than confident he will pick this up just fine.

Neither do I. I think the thousand hours is maybe a bit overkill. He is already familiar with computers and that's a lot of the battle. The Carbide program mentioned above is a good starting point. If it exports DXF (drawing exchange files from AutoCAD like programs) it would be a plus. No Export or Save As DXF but it does allow you to Save a gcode file you can test run in CAMotics https://camotics.org/

[William Adams]

Carbide Create only imports DXFs and SVGs --- there's a converter program on the unofficial Facebook group which will convert .c2d files into SVGs, and you can get an SVG by posting to cutrocket.com --- but it should be considered a final output tool, not a content creation for other programs.

Usually we're able to work up custom step-by-step tutorials for folks who're having trouble --- @Van Huskey --- if there's some project you would like to make let us know and we can work up a tutorial here.

[Jim Becker]

Neither do I. I think the thousand hours is maybe a bit overkill.

I don't personally believe it's overkill in the context that I think Gary meant. Remember, he's been doing this for a LONG time and also does training independently and with at least one major CNC manufacturer. So he likely has a pretty good handle on the time require to become "really proficient" and that's where the 1000 hours comes in. But as Keith and I and others have also mentioned, folks can be very productive relatively quickly if they start with the basics and work methodically while continuing to learn more and more. That's exactly how I've been treating my own training/learning...everything I do has a purpose to increase complexity so I get more and more comfortable with the more subtle things that take things to the next level. I got my machine physically in mid-April and at this point, I'm extremely comfortable with a lot of things. At the same time, I'm experimenting with some others which sometimes work and sometimes, um...well...don't. I expect by this time next year, I'll be in a really good place and will probably easily have that 1000 hours under my belt.

[Ron Hampe]

My first cnc was a 12" x 12" Piranha that has never had a single cut made on it and I am the third owner. The first died before he got to plug it in, the second decided the learning curve was too much to try and I bought it to play with then found a deal on a used Stinger III before Vectric approved the software transfer to me. I have some friends who use miniature power tools to make very tiny things and thinking it might be a great addition to their tiny shop!

[William Adams]

Learning vector drawing is a lot like learning to draw w/ pencil or pen. There's a technical skillset of how to use the tool, and the artistic aspect of seeing what and how to draw. There was a time when I spent 40 hours a week (or more) drawing in Adobe Illustrator or Macromedia FreeHand at my first job out of college --- I already knew both apps quite well when I started, but for the first couple of weeks, learned a lot about both apps (in addition to some specialty apps used in flexography, and the workflow at the shop). Kept learning, esp. about Illustrator which I've never liked, and never found comfortable despite having used since v3.2 for much of the year that I worked there.

If you're not comfortable with vector drawing and attendant concepts, it'll take a while to learn / master that. Some of it is the basics of Bézier curves --- see http://bezier.method.ac/ for a game about them (which unfortunately shows one violating the 30--30 rule quite a bit), the balance is the logic of Boolean operations (there's a bit on those at the Carbide Create page on the Shapeoko wiki), the rest the interface of the drawing program and its commands and terminology (annoyingly the terminology varies from app to app).

Then you need to learn a CAM tool to create toolpaths, but for that, you need to understand the machining principles of endmill selection, chipload, and how feeds and speeds influence chipload and the machine cutting in either a climbing or conventional path.

Then you need to work out workholding, and zeroing the machine relative to the stock, and if need be indexing and registration for flipping or otherwise reorienting parts.

If you take up 3D modeling, that's another skillset --- I just use OpenSCAD programmatically, but my son has devoted a bit of effort to learning SolidWorks and found a 3D mouse a big help. For 3D you'll need a 3D CAM tool. Some of them are quite simple (MeshCAM), but others are quite involved.

[Van Huskey]

First, I want to thank everyone for their responses. Second, I let the thread run for a couple of days without replying so I wouldn't continually redirect the course.

My wife pointed out a better analogy about how I am. The backstory is I have LOTS of hobbies and often venture into a new space but I am easily distracted by other hobbies. My wife's analogy concerns video games. While I am bouncing around 50 years old I am still a gamer, I have been on and off since Pong came out. If I get a new game and the learning curve is extremely steep I get distracted by other interests and may never play it again, if I can get a quick foothold the remaining part of the curve is irrelevant, I will be destroying teenagers online in a short time. My attention span is shorter as I grow older my wife suggests it is because I am less poor and can start new hobbies on a whim, where years ago I might have to save for 6 months or a year to start something (my way) and thus learn half of all I need to know before I am actually able to start the adventure.

I think I have decided later this year to jump in the shallow end with a budget machine. If it is enough fine, if not I have a nephew that would absolutely love a CNC. He has been a "maker" from a young age and like most of us, before it was cool. I have always been a patron for his building hobbies we buy him things he can't (well shouldn't afford) being in his late 20s with a family. So if the $2k machine doesn't work for me either by moving up or moving out he will be ecstatic. If it does work out then it leaves more money for bandsaws. After IWF I am going to North Georgia to pick up another bandsaw which will go in storage with most of my flock.

Oh, speaking of room and CNCs I assume they can be on a mobile table and can be shoved into a corner. I break ground on my new shop soon and I am maxed out on space due to my lot shape and restrictions and there MUST be room for at least 10 bandsaws. And to Bobby that said, "It will make your bandsaw seem primitive for most things IMO." I simply say SHUT YOUR MOUTH!

Thanks again, it pushed me that little bit to give it a shot.

[Jim Becker]

Van, the small CNC can be on a "movable" table, but you'll want to be sure it fully locks in place while in operation since movement of the gantry can jiggle things around. "Beefy" is the recommendation. Don't forget that you need to accommodate the computer workstation that attaches to the machine, too.

[Tony Leonard]

Mine is mobile and shoved in a corner! I made a caster setup that retracts. This thing is heavy! My table is 2x4's and mdf webs. After I ran it for a while, I added some stiffening. That seemed to help. Amazing how much these things move. But when you think about how much weight that is moving around quite rapidly, I guess it is no surprise.

Anyway, enjoy your new toy! You can download a trial of Vcarve pro. Not sure about Easel or the other ones. Might be good to go ahead and start playing. There are some good gcode simulators online too.

[Chris Padilla]

I just bought my first CNC, Van: a Nomad 883. It is a cute lil' thing that sits on a bench top but is quite limited with its ability to handle projects in the 8" x 8" x 3" (x, y, z) size. 2.5k for it plus I had to buy every available accessory so it "routed out" 3k from my account. LOL I'm still buying new tool bits for it but those aren't very expensive.

While I have always known that one day I wanted to get into CNC stuff, I didn't have the shop space for the 4x8 one I really want but I found a fair number of bench top versions of reasonable cost.

One thing that helped me was that I had a VERY specific project in mind that I actually NEEDED a CNC for in order to work on it.

The other thing that helped me was that I was already pretty decent with Sketch Up--a CAD program. From it, I can create what I want and eventually get it into my CAD machine to start cutting it out.

There are 3 main pieces of software that you more or less need for CNC to produce a sketch on a piece of paper to something tangible you can hold:

(1) CAD (computer aided design) to create the project--I use Sketch Up but there are A LOT of choices out there that do many different things.

(2) CAM (computer aided manufacturing) to figure out how to cut/mill your project. Along with the Nomad 883, you get a program called MeshCAM. This software basically develops the toolpath(s) that your CNC will use to cut/mill out what you've designed in CAD. This will output a file in G-code.

(3) Machine Controller--kinda self-explanatory: it uses the G-code from the CAM to run the spindle and motors and move things as specified in the G-code.

Seem scary and daunting? It isn't really. Each piece of software does a specific thing and each piece creates a file that the next piece of software needs. You just flow from CAD to CAM to MC.

I recommend you do this:

Sign up for Rob Grzesek's 5-day crash course on CNC. It is totally free with zero obligation and you'll get one email per day for 5 days (you can stop them any time) and you'll get introduced to the world of CNC:

http://www.grzsoftware.com/ Go there and read it if you like. In the lower right corner of the screen, you should see an orange box--click it and sign up for the crash course. It really helped me out a lot.

Good Luck...CNC is a total blast and fun to learn! I think you'll be glad you did it. You'll soon start imagining all the cool stuff you can make with such precision control over a chunk of wood or metal or plastic or whatever.

[Steve Middleton]

What a great thread. I'm considering a CNC router some time next year and this addresses some of my concerns!