Ron, if you build, including the small fans to help vent the vacuum cabinet doesn't add appreciably to the cost and may keep things running a few degrees cooler...which can extend life. I don't know that I'd eliminate them on that basis.
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Ron, if you build, including the small fans to help vent the vacuum cabinet doesn't add appreciably to the cost and may keep things running a few degrees cooler...which can extend life. I don't know that I'd eliminate them on that basis.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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Mark, the lighthouse motors are supposed to last 500 - 1000hrs and I bet some get much more. These little tykes generate a lot of heat quickly, and to extract that is not just a simple fan. I have only fried one, and that was a stupid error cutting steel where I shouldn't with my new dry cut saw. I would have burned the motors down soon after building mine if it were not for the gauge. My filters were too dense and there was not enough air flow. In my mind 500-1000hrs is awesome for a $100 or so. Even the vanes on the big Beckers need to be replaced from time to time, and those are expensive. I did buy a spare motor last time because the time to get them was a problem. I think you will be pushing the limit of the single phase option.
Last edited by Brad Shipton; 07-26-2018 at 11:48 PM.
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May well be but as I say, 2 years in and still going strong with plenty of vac and far less electric due to the ability to phase in as much vac as needed (which also spreads the hours over all of the motors). Our vac runs 8 hours a day often and I'd only be able to guess at a weekly average. Maybe 20-30 hours. So in 2 years even figuring less than 52 weeks (though I haven't had a vacation in 2 years but some weeks it undoubtedly runs less that the 20-30) but using middle of the road and a conservative 40 weeks is 2K hours. It works for us. And really works when we are doing single zone work and only have a single stage running.Originally Posted by Brad Shipton
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I think they are a great option for us without 3ph. I would not have a vacuum for my table had it not for someone developing the idea of using shop vac motors. I am out of juice until I upgrade my service. When you upgrade machines to be able to cut at 1000ipm or more (and I suspect you will), I am not sure it will fit the bill. I think you would find you would start losing parts too often.
Last edited by Brad Shipton; 07-28-2018 at 1:54 PM.
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I dont foresee an upgrade in my future lol. Im 51. I opted for the CNC for the downgrade (in physical labor Lol). I honestly still wouldnt be pleased with a massive 3ph motor running to hold a single zone on the vac. Its just unnecessary. I can move to 3 phase here at any point. Or could run a 7.5HP Regen if I wanted to. The power is running right over my shop and when we added 400amps to the shop last the engineer and I spoke about the 3PH option. Im not really interested.
I honestly think its very similar to the dynabrade thread in the general forum. The habits of old, of just doing something because thats what has always been done, are always slowly changing. Modular/pod based manufacturing is everywhere in cutting edge big industry. The ability to activate a pod/cell when demand calls yet having it not costing you a fortune when its not need that month. I have worked hard to keep that mindset in-tact in every single business decision I make. I see the conversations about 2K worth of vanes for a blower that most dont feel comfortable installing or even worse the stories of a shop who trashes the first set trying to install them themselves. If I were running several tens of thousands of dollars of finished product out the door weekly it would be a different story but when your running a unit of ply one week, a bunch of small plaques another, some aluminum another... Of courser bigger faster would always be nice but the last kitchen we did was averaging 4 minutes per sheet and there were no issues with holding parts. I cant unload and stack the parts on the cart in 4 minutes lol so going any faster is not really going to help me much!! ;-)
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We'll wait and see.It is easy to find good used ones and I would not be shocked to hear you do something like that. I am about the same age.
I do not think a 7.5hp regen would perform any better and could be worse if you have a beat up spoilboard or a nested sheet of drawer parts. I think the idea of using the motors these single phase ones do was quite brilliant and a great solution for us limited on power.
I will put in a Kay Phase converter or something along those lines when I upgrade to a new shop. I want some old iron that runs on bigger motors. I cannot get 3ph on my acreage without paying something like the OP here since it would come from miles.
I get your argument about balancing the machine with the shop size. I did not truly appreciate the reality of keeping one of these machines cutting parts full time. It takes an army of people selling, creating drawings, making cut files, cutting, assembling, and installing if you offer that service. Even my pokey machine could produce more parts than 2 or 3 guys could manage if I limited projects basically to boxes. I can point you to a 2014 Anderson machine being sold that only has 200hrs. That is not the first one I have found with so few hours. I think that is more common than one might think. One guy posted on a thread when he was working at what sounded pretty much like a cabinet box factory. There I am sure the machines are running full time, so the cut times would be important. It sounded incredibly dull, but the bosses were making out like bandits from the description.
My cut times vary from 9min to 25min for cab sheets. The 25min would be when I have multiple parts that need shelf holes. That added time is a fraction of the time what it would take to do without a commercial boring machine that I have no space for. I am only one guy, so that speed is fine.
Last edited by Brad Shipton; 07-28-2018 at 3:40 PM.
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I have been having good luck with running Fein vacuums They have there own cooling fan and are 10 time more quite then the black boxe. Check out the threads on the Shopbot forum
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Brad your exactly right. The work the cnc does is really trivial compared to an overall project (less so if your talking about commercial melamine casework). On an average kitchen for us the sheet goods are about 5-10% of the project which makes it understandable why melamine shops love melamine cabs. Because the entire product is cncmachinable. When we get done with the sheets we still have to build frames, doors, drawers, gee gaw pull outs and spice racks, on and on. And then beyond ALL THAT we have to sand, stain, and clear everything.
Even on plaques and sign work the blank prep and plaque finishing is equal to the machine time or way way more for an involved sign.
IPM works when it works but then your on to the next bottleneck. 40hp of costly vacuum is a long ways from my next bottleneck in line. Drafting as you mention when your in a shop that does odd work is a huge one
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Very interesting Jerome. I have seen a few pictures with the Fein's melted down, but I am no expert on what the cause was. I recall Gary talking about the pro's and con's of the Fein vs. Lighthouse motors somewhere in the build thread, so I never really looked much into other options. The noise is not much of a bother to me. My machine is around 65-70dB (app on phone) with the noise of the cutting and DC. It jumps to just shy of 80dB when I turn on the table vacuum. Most of the time I have ear buds or something to reduce the noise. I stopped using my noise cancelling buds when I ended up leaving the DC on overnight.
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Us too. But before the CNC; cutting the sheets, drilling shelf holes, assembling the boxes (still need to but it's trivial now), locating and drilling the hinge and slide holes used LOT higher percentage of the labor time. Now we're more focused on reducing labor on other tasks.
[OP]
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If I build one of these I plan to use the blower from an hvac system to remove the heat from the vacuum cabinet. At app. 400 cfm per ton, the blower from a 2 ton or larger system should remove the heat far more efficiently than those small fans and I will be able to release it either into the main return for heat in winter or dump it outside in summer.
[OP]
Member
My reasoning differs from many of you in that I have no interest in becoming a production shop. I'm retiring and this is just for fun and maybe to make a few dollars and more than anything get my 24 year old kid interested in woodworking. This shop and our home will be hers one day. She is very artistic and I kinda like having her around. Hopefully our talents will rub off on each other too.
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Many are in the same boat as you. James and Mark are two of the few in this thread running a full time business with their machines. Be sure to post some pics of your idea when you get to building. The mention of tons of air cooling suggests we might have an ex-HVAC guy.
If you have an artist daughter you have a leg up in the sign crafting. I would look at Rodger's work (he has a facebook page). There is a ton of artistry to his signs, and people will pay for that. I think signs are one of the best options for making sideline money for these machines if you do have a lot of others in the market. I say that because there are fewer extra steps after cutting. Customer wants sign, design sign, cut sign, finish, and then they go away with their sign. If you start making anything other than small boxes or other trinkets, you end up spending a lot of time assembling, ordering materials or even installing on site. Still great fun, but it quickly starts to feel like a job and less like a fun hobby.
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Hi Mark I was wondering if i could ask question about your f4 does it have check valves on the lines in box to prevent backflow to other vacuums while they are not in operation . thanks for any input
Contributor
Yes. Any pump can be pulled and the unit still runs. If t didnt a stage that wasnt running or needed would be a dead leak in the system
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