Chisel honing angle

[Blair Swanson]

I am interested in how much of a honing angle you all are using on what primary bevel for your preferred paring chisels. I assume that 30 degree primary with 2 degree secondary is in the majority. My 3 new Veritas PM-V11 bench chisels are : The 1/4" is 30 with 2, and the 1/2" & 3/4" are both 25 with 2 out of the box.
Mike Pekovich mentioned he uses 30 degree primary with 5 degree hone (35 cutting angle). This seems to me to be sensible with regard to maintaining the edge with seemingly negligible difference in performance. BUT control & ease of paring must also be considered & those 3 Veritas chisels are not really up for experimenting.
Any advice is most welcome & appreciated. Thanks in advance guys.
Blair.

[Mike Henderson]

I put a primary bevel of 25 degrees and use a secondary bevel to make the cutting edge 30 degrees, or even more if necessary. I use a WorkSharp to establish the primary bevel.

I do all my chisels that way, including Japanese chisels.

Mike

[Oops, I missed the part about it being a paring chisel. I replied for ordinary chisels.]

[Jim Koepke]

I am interested in how much of a honing angle you all are using on what primary bevel for your preferred paring chisels.

My 'preferred paring chisels' get a bevel of ~20º without a secondary bevel. Over time the edge may tend to develop a secondary bevel. When this happens, the chisel is taken to the grinder for a restoration of its full, low angle flat bevel.

Do consider that most of my work is done in fir or other soft woods. Such a low angle might not hold up well in hardwoods.

As with everything else in life, YMMV!!!.png

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

I find that when working with this never-ending supply of pecan (hickory?) that I have been working with off and on for the last while, I have better luck for hand paring only (no mallet involved) with a 25* bevel on my main user paring only Ashley Iles O1 steel chisels. I am better able to shave off thin peels with the lower angle then when using a 25* primary plus 30* secondary. I tend to use the 30* secondary bevel when using a mallet and go up to 35* secondary bevel for mortising work. I have a set of the LN A2 steel chisels that live with the 25* main and 30* secondary bevels for mallet work and a couple of the Ray Iles D2 steel pig stickers plus some Sorby firmer chisels with O1 steel with the 35* secondary bevel dedicated to mortising. It is not a lot of work to add-subtract-change a secondary bevel, so maybe try different angles on different woods to see what works best for you.

[Charles Guest]

20* grind, few degrees higher for the hone. 30* is too obtuse for paring, really even for malleting IMO -- the chisel wants to back up too much. Manufacturers love to recommend 30*+ There is a lot of pretty nondescript tool steel that will hold an edge at 35* reasonably well, some very well. For Pete's sake don't pay a premium price for something you feel needs to be honed that high and never lower. The measure of decent steel is to last a decent amount of time at a lower angle. No chisel is supposed to last days, or even hours. Touch ups should be quick. As long as the edge isn't rolling in a handful of passes, grind and hone it low. If you're working with an extremely hard species, this puts a premium on your ability to split a line with the saw and leave only a little for a chisel to clean up. It's not a situation that should send you scurrying for a tool catalog and a new set of chisels. Your ability to saw well will in a lot of instances take a great deal of pressure off your paring chisels, and makes all the work go faster.

Just for sake of comparison, with some historical flavor, an old Audel's guide recommended grinding paring chisels at 15* and honing at the same angle. Now, these would have been chisels never powered by a mallet mind you, but you don't need to go much higher for light malleting. The expectation is that you'll touch up when needed, and these should take mere seconds -- you're not dragging out a series of persnikety stones that have to be flattened often, jigs, etc. And, as mentioned above, the expectation is that you aren't sawing way off the line and leaving a bunch to remove with chisels, or any other tool for that matter.

A 35* chisel has to be kept blistering sharp for paring, and this has to be maintained by frequent touchups so there's no free lunch. What the lower angled chisel will give you is more control. You're setting up your bench chisels like you might your carving chisels, for control. You're not worried about edge longevity as much as you are control.

[Noah Magnuson]

No secondaries here. 20-25 paring and 28-32ish for the ones getting pounded depending on the wood and special uses. I have a handful of reference blocks and just make sure I maintain the same bevel when I sharpen. It's not rocket science, but there are noticeable thresholds you find with different chisels that start to introduce problems with performance or edge integrity.

[Blair Swanson]

Thank you all for the valued input. Greatly appreciated guys!
David - Good point re. ease of secondary bevel adjust. It doesn't take more than an initial couple strokes to hone what you want. I don't think one needs a lot to accomplish the cut angle.

Noah - What is your reasoning for no secondaries? Seems counter productive to me. I have a 1-1/2" Japanese chisel with no secondary but there's too much work to touch it up so I'll consider a secondary for that one & maybe even a micro on top of that.

Charles - That's a lot of good stuff pal. Gonna digest it all.

I'll learn from applying the acquired insight. Be well .

Blair.

[Noah Magnuson]

Noah - What is your reasoning for no secondaries? Seems counter productive to me. I have a 1-1/2" Japanese chisel with no secondary but there's too much work to touch it up so I'll consider a secondary for that one & maybe even a micro on top of that.

I have one nice flat bevel that registers well either direction and since I freehand sharpen, I don't like to have to fuss with the micros. I just have the single bevel for the chisel and specific use. I like things simple, and I can't say I spend an inordinate amount of time touching up or sharpening. If you don't use a grinder/belt/disc, the amount of metal you have to take off is the same no matter which way you do it in the long run. Whatever works best for you, I say go at it.

[Frederick Skelly]

My 'preferred paring chisels' get a bevel of ~20º without a secondary bevel. Do consider that most of my work is done in fir or other soft woods. Such a low angle might not hold up well in hardwoods.

+1. 20* on my parers for soft wood.

[Tom M King]

20 for parers, and add me to the list that doesn't bother with micro-bevels. I don't own any parers with anything harder than 01.

[Blair Swanson]

I have one nice flat bevel that registers well either direction and since I freehand sharpen, I don't like to have to fuss with the micros. I just have the single bevel for the chisel and specific use. I like things simple, and I can't say I spend an inordinate amount of time touching up or sharpening. If you don't use a grinder/belt/disc, the amount of metal you have to take off is the same no matter which way you do it in the long run. Whatever works best for you, I say go at it.

Good point. I may leave my 1-1/2" that way on 2nd thought. Nice to have a wide register on a primary bevel on occasion.

I've been freehand sharpening my Japanese kitchen knives forever but just can't seem to get it right with my plane blades or chisels. It's terribly frustrating. I have made myself an array of blocks, referenced by a digital angle gauge, for all needed angles & use the Veritas mk2 w/the cambering roller ONLY. This gives me a much better feel / result than with the flat roller. Gotta get comfortable with freehand touchup.
B.

[Stewie Simpson]

W1 and 01 steel on all my chisels. Have moved away from using hollow grinds on my chisels and plane irons; flat primary bevels (no micro). parers 20*, bench chisels 25* -30*, mortising chisels 35*.

[Brandon Speaks]

My understanding was that a normal bench chisel might be between 25 and 30ish to withstand chopping but that a pairing chisel would be less than 25. All of this of course subject to what different steels can handle.

I am not using secondary bevels today but do understand their utility both in terms of edge retention and also ease of touch up. I am honestly not so sure I buy the ease of touch up piece as being a big deal, but edge retention in some steels makes sense.

I understand that A2 in particular requires higher angles but I thought one of the advantages of PM-V11 was you could get down to 25 and lower if you wanted.

[Blair Swanson]

With the Veritas PM-V11 chisels they apparently considered the chisel width to determine primary bevel. 3/8" & smaller were given 30*, while 25* was assigned to those over 3/8".
B.
EDIT: BTW, the lapped chisel backs on these tools is superb!

[Jason Lester]

With the Veritas PM-V11 chisels they apparently considered the chisel width to determine primary bevel. 3/8" & smaller were given 30*, while 25* was assigned to those over 3/8".
B.
EDIT: BTW, the lapped chisel backs on these tools is superb!

I got a 1/2" PM-V11 chisel yesterday. I already had some plane blades in that metal and have been impressed with the sharpness and edge holding. I chopped several dovetails last night with the new chisel and it definitely doesn't disappoint. I didn't even hone it, just to see what it would do out of the box. I could barely start to see some shiny spots on the edge when I finished last night, but it was still cleanly cutting the end grain. My Narex one would have needed sharpening already in the same amount of time.