New DC Install Location Suggestions

[aaron olson]

Hello,

Have had great help through this process on this forum. Thanks.

Clear Vue is on the way and i started tearing in to where I think i want it but have had some self doubt so thought I would put it up here to get the groups opinion and suggestion.

My shop is horribly tore up and mess right now due to this so be kind in knowing that. I can't stand it either but it is temporary.

I would ideally like it under my steps and help keep the noise down. the width of that area however is 36" and the dept current at an 8 foot level is only about 20 inches. My thought was to build a small enclosure where the entry of the steps is today. So the basic box at the doorway entrance today would widen to about 48" and the length be increased to about 50". I want to make this as small as possible to not take up floor space. Also, this moves the unit off center of the building.

The doorway would to be created for access so i was simply thinking to make a short door where i marked the picture up. It is only about 65" or so but I think would be enough to service the unit?

Looking for any thoughts or suggestions.

20180721_061149.jpg20180721_061210.jpg20180721_061138.jpg

[Don Parker]

A few thoughts:

1. Think about vertical clearance. You need to be able to fit some sort of dust bin under the cyclone’s funnel, and the impeller motor needs clearance at the top.

2. You can get creative with where to put the filters, if need be. They don’t have to stack vertically; mine sit side by side, with a manifold at the top and another dust bin at the bottom.

3. Think about where you want the intake to point, and the need for a relatively straight run for a few feet before the intake, and how the whole system will feed into the intake without unnecessarily tight curves, etc. I think those considerations can override the space saving consideration. You can use under the staircase space in all sorts of ways; it won’t be wasted space if it is not ideal for the ClearVue to go there.

4. Noise comes in different forms. Yes, the blower noise with a ClearVue is substantial, but so is vibration noise, if you are mounting the ClearVue to the rest of your house. Using that space under the staircase sure looks like you will have no choice but to mount it to the support structure for the stairs. I bet that is going to cause the whole house to rumble. I speak from experience. You might be better off building a little stand alone “shed” for the ClearVue that is not mounted to the house framing. Or, just live with the noise. I don’t run my ClearVue unless my family is ready for the noise, and I never run it for hours at a time. A closet can help with blower noise, but a closet connected to your house can cause a resonance that the rest of your occupants will definitely hear and feel.

Despite the above, I am a very happy ClearVue owner. Good luck with the installation.

[John K Jordan]

...I would ideally like it under my steps and help keep the noise down.

Besides the possible height problem and the noise through the steps, would putting the cyclone under the stairs block quick access to the electrical panel?

Hard to know what's best for your space. I can only tell you my experience with how I installed my Clearvue 1800. The cyclone is incredibly loud, nearly unbearable without dealing with the sound.

I built a 4'x8' closet with sound insulation in the walls and ceiling and mounted the cyclone on an external wall. I made the closet that big so I could also put a 5hp vertical-tank air compressor there, another noise maker. The 4x8 is the outside dimension so the inside is perhaps 10-11' narrower, still plenty of room for the two machines.

The walls between the closet and shop are staggered-stud construction to minimize sound conduction. An air return through the trusses is also insulated and has multiple turns and baffles to minimize sound by that path. The ceiling height is 9' which was barely enough to fit a 30 gal galvanized steel trash can under the cone as a bin. For access I put insulated double steel doors on the closet, 5' wide and standard door height. I put electrical connections to the machines inside the closet fed from a sub panel. The remote control and bin sensor electronics are outside the closet in the main shop, as is an electrical cutoff switch for the air compressor.

My installation resulted in quieting it enough that I can hear someone whisper on that end of the shop. When running, I can carry on a normal conversation in the shop, impossible otherwise. I wear hearing protection for some machines but it's not because of the dust collector.

The double door makes access easy for dragging out the bin for emptying. With a 9' ceiling my cyclone motor is nearly touching the ceiling and the short piece of flex between the bottom of the cone and the bin barely allows lifting the lid enough to slide the bin out. Any shorter vertical space and I would have had to come up with a shorter bin. Since the cyclone is mounted on an external wall I can hear the motor easily from outside the shop - I think mount it on any interior wall would create a noise problem. Some people build an independent stand to isolate the cyclone from the walls.

My double door does not open into the wood shop but into a separate room on the end of the shop. I suspect if I had doors that opened into the shop they would need more sound insulation than what I have now.

I didn't measure and draw the cyclone/filters to scale but this shows the general location:
shop_floorplan_cyclone.jpg

From reading on the ClearVue forum and elsewhere, much of the noise comes from the exhaust manifold. Some people insulate that separately for a significant sound reduction.

JKJ

[aaron olson]

Thanks for your replies.

Unfortunately when I spoke with clear vue i can't put it outside. We can get temps here that can drop down to -30 air temp and lower at times with wind chills far below that. Clear vue said that below -40 could cause issue with the grease in the bearings. Inside the shop it doesn't drop below 10 even at the worst days.

The noise in the winter in the shop is a bit constant and I am not wanting to add to it and why i want this under the steps or minimized. Currently my only form of heat is a propane heater and is noisy. The little electric heater you might see is a joke and doesn't do anything except drive my electric bill up. some day maybe I can get a Natural Gas force air heater. Maybe in the next year or two now with this purchase.

I am thinking to build on the extension i mention to the steps and utilize better the full 10 foot ceilings and it sounds mount this on the outside wall to aid in noise reduction. I think before I wall stuff in and cut out the door i marked I will see how this works. Maybe I could even place the door on the outside of this new wall depending on the orientation of the unit.

as far as pipe configuration goes I will try and angle it towards my miter saw but that is fine. I will likely wye it there too and place a floor sweep as well.

I have seen some comments on this unit that to have only a single 4" machine running is a no no and will cause issues with the motor. To resolve it I think it was mentioned to open 2 different tools that might be 4". Is this the case? Hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks again for the assistance here.

[John K Jordan]

I have seen some comments on this unit that to have only a single 4" machine running is a no no and will cause issues with the motor. To resolve it I think it was mentioned to open 2 different tools that might be 4". Is this the case? Hopefully that makes sense.

I don't believe that is the case. Some people think if you don't get enough air through the cyclone the motor will use more current and get hotter. The opposite is true - if you cut the air off completely the motor will use LESS current since the impeller is running in a decreased pressure, a "partial vacuum". (Unlike some dust collectors, the motor itself is not in the air stream.) I checked this on my system with a current meter. In fact, Clearvue warns against running the cyclone with NO ducts attached since that will allow too much air and cause the motor to work harder.

Using a single 4" duct might instead be a problem of moving enough air through the ducts. This might allow sawdust and chips to drop out of the airstream and accumulate in places such as long horizontal runs or transitions. I do use some 4" pickups at several machines such as the bandsaw and lathe, but I use three pickups on the bandsaw which moves plenty of air into the 6" ductwork. I use a single 4" pickup nozzle at the lathe but always open the nearby bandsaw blast gate a little bit to allow plenty of airflow down the main duct.

Note that when you install the cyclone the position of the inlet and exhaust ducts doesn't matter - you can rotate the exhaust to any position to help position the filters in the best place. You don't have to have access to the filters often (as with the bin) but you may need to get to them occasionally.

There was discussion about floor sweeps not long ago. I bought one but decided not to install it. Instead I sweep with a broom and vacuum as needed. I put a shop vac hose on a 4" blast gate for that.

JKJ