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Thread: Advice needed on which Hammer K3 to get

  1. #1
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    Advice needed on which Hammer K3 to get

    As a follow-up to my other post on this subject, I'm looking for some advice on which size Hammer K3 to get. I'm looking at both the 48x48 and 79x48. Obviously I would love to have the longer slider, but the space that it will take up even in the locked position has me concerned.

    I've attached a rough drawing of my shop as it is now; each box is 1 square foot. It's a basement shop, so there are no doors to open to increase the room. I have to share space with litter boxes for our cats, but thankfully those are mostly out of my way. The equipment on the left side is mobile, none of them can be used without moving them, and I will often move the router table and bandsaw into the space between the TS and the cabinets at the top when using them. The cart that's in that section is mobile, and it's what I use for assembly and outfeed support. The DC on the right side is mounted to the wall, and space below it is taken up by the dust bin and a shop-vac. Space below the lumber rack is currently taken up by TS blade storage and a few other things, but all of them can be moved if necessary. That "Junk / Lumber" area in the lower left is for oversized pieces that can't fit on the lumber rack, and also includes a half-height IT Computer Rack that I've had for years but plan to get rid of since I never really used it for anything.

    The TS infeed is on the bottom in the drawing, meaning I push material toward that mobile cart. It's a contractor-style saw, but since it has a side table and small built-in outfeed it still takes up a decent amount of room. In fact, a Hammer K3 chassis will take up almost the same overall footprint, only encroaching toward the DC slightly. The main difference of course will be the slider, the left side of which will basically line up with the left edge of my current saw. That change however means my body position will change when cutting, as for most cuts I will be standing to the left of the saw. A slider also means that I might have to start from back near that "Junk" area, depending on the size of the material and size of the slider. I think that arrangement can work without much difficulty, regardless of the slider size, since I don't work with full plywood sheets all that often but do occasionally rip long pieces of material.

    What I'm concerned mostly about is the amount of space the slider will take up, especially when I'm not actively using the saw. This is especially important for when I'm working in that assembly area behind the saw, since the outfeed portion of the slider will take up some of that space (I think it's like 8-9" for the 48" version, and possibly up to 24" for the 79" version). That's space that I generally use / need. Even if I push the slider all the way to the infeed, the track it rides on sticks out toward the outfeed some in the 79" version. I'm sure I could move the saw to some other location to make room (e.g. toward the litter boxes and toward the DC), but that will encroach on my infeed limits / space.

    So, does anyone have any suggestions on which saw I should get? I really do want the 79" slider, but I want to hear what others think about its impact on my shop usage.

    Thanks,
    Steve

    shop.jpg
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  2. #2
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    Looks like we have the same size shop. I have my slider along the long, right side wall. I only have a 6 foot sliding table, but I believe I could fit a longer slider. Place any seldom used items on the walls in front of and behind the main body of the saw; I have a tool box on the infeed side, and a short bed lathe on the right wall in front of the saw/outfeed. Neither interferes with the operation of the saw.
    After getting dimensions of the longer machine, you could use some tape on the floor and a tape measure to determine the best location.

  3. #3
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    Oct 2007
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    I have a Hammer 80" S/S in a similar sized room and it is tight. It is fine when the shop is empty, but when you have carts of material, or you start assembling things, it starts to get crowded. I guess I would ask what type of projects do you mostly do? If you plan on building furniture, then it is wonderful to be able to straight line longer stock or rip down sheet goods. That said, I built a jig to straight line 10' stock on my 80" slider and many shops are building cabinets using cabinet saws.

    You must have some large cats cause they have a huge litter box.

  4. #4
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    I don't recall if you've visited here or not, Steve, but I can easily show you what the space requirements are for an 8'6" slider so you can "estimate down" relative to what will work in your own shop. I'm around pretty much all the time since I retired from full time work last fall, so I'm happy to have your stop by. Just contact me privately to set that up at a mutually convenient time.

    Longer gives more flexibility, but given you "can" do long rips in the same manner as with a North American design saw, you can get away with a shorter wagon for refining the rip on most project components and, of course, do the precision cross-cutting which is where a slider really, really shines.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
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    Steve, you have not said what you will use the slider to cut - full sheet goods or solid wood? This could be relevant.

    I have the 49" slider, which is perfect for my furniture building, since I do not work with sheet goods, only solid wood.

    This is the K3 with unextended slider ...



    The slider extends to the rear, and stops about 3" short if my bench ....

    Not fully extended here, but you get the picture ...



    So, while the table saw is compact like this, quaite a bit of space is needed for the slider extending. It is important to determine what you will use the saw for 90% of the time. For myself, if I needed to cut sheets, it would require a work around. I'd tolerate that since it is so seldom. However, it would be a royal pain in the watsit if I needed to do so reasonably often. The 49" slider is not optimised for that.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  6. #6
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    Thanks for all the input and advice.

    To answer the main question, I mostly work with solid stock, but the length and width vary. I do some work with plywood pieces on occasion, but for the most part those would be partial sheets and not full sheets. I did manage to build a 12 foot wide built-in using just my contractor saw and various infeed and outfeed helpers, but processing that much plywood is a definite rarity.

    Jim, I was over your house; I bought a mortiser off you. :-) Your saw is about the size of my shop! But thanks for the offer of having me stop by to take a look again.

    Last night I took some pieces I had laying around and placed them on top of my existing saw to kind of mark out where each size slider would be in the locked position. While the 79" slider won't encroach that much, it would become annoying to constantly have to work around it. Plus if I decide to push it toward the infeed in order to make room on the outfeed side, I would then have to squeeze past the extended slider when heading back toward the infeed. The reverse is also true of course. That would get old quick.

    Because of these limits, I decided I am going to go with the 48" slider. I know I'll be happy with it no matter what, and while on some occasions I might wish I had the 79" slider, I already feel cramped in the shop sometimes now; I don't want to feel cramped all the time! I can build a jig for ripping longer stock.

    Thanks,
    Steve
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  7. #7
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    Just a technicality, Hammer and Felder are European and use metric, not imperial measurements. The slider is 1250mm, and this converts to 49" (actually 49.2126"). Are the versions sold in the USA different?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  8. #8
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    No, it's the same version as sold elsewhere. It's technically 1250mm but they market it as the 48x48.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  9. #9
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    Derek, it looks like you have a router insert in your K3. Is that right? If so, how do you find it relative to a stand alone router table? Steve, you might take note as that would be an option to eliminate a work station and recover some space. You might even consider a combination machine to be even more efficient in your space.

    I have a 5 function CF741 and it allows me to use my space more efficiently. Sure, it'd be nice to have separate machines, but I simply don't have the space for them in my current shop (a 3 car garage shared with my spouse's car periodically). And I generally don't find the change over to be that much of a hassle, although it does promote more planning about how to process your work.

    Mike

  10. #10
    I have the 79x48, and think I could get by with the 48x48, just use the rip fence to rip longer pieces, including sheets, then crosscut on the slider. Be sure to get the outrigger. I bought new Tenryu blades when I got my Hammer saw, and have yet to use the scoring cutter, so consider it unnecessary.

  11. #11
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    Mike, I already own a Hammer A3-31 Jointer / Planer combo (same as Derek, it turns out), so I don't need a combo machine.

    I really haven't thought about hanging my router off my saw. I've had my home-built router table for a while now, and not only do I like it but I'm kind of used to it. I might reconsider that in the future though if I find I need the space. I only briefly thought about getting the shaper for the K3 (so it would become a B3), but the added costs involved and the fact that I have my router table turned me away from that.

    Steve
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  12. #12
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    Ah, sorry, I completely forgot about the mortiser! LOL Premature senoir moment. But you can still come over and visit...there's a nice CNC taking up a lot of space now, too. I almost know how to use it at this point...

    On the router, it's not a terrible thing to get it latched onto the saw if you can benefit from the increased space. I know I've enjoyed that, even with the slight lack of headroom while working from the end of the router table for pattern stuff.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike King View Post
    Derek, it looks like you have a router insert in your K3. Is that right? If so, how do you find it relative to a stand alone router table? Steve, you might take note as that would be an option to eliminate a work station and recover some space. You might even consider a combination machine to be even more efficient in your space. ....Mike
    Steve, you may not need this now, or may opt to do so later. I found it a big space saver.

    My K3 came with the half-size extension ...



    This is where I added the router table ...


    The underside ...



    It works well and does not interfere with the rip fence.



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #14
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    Hi, I have the B3 with the 1250mm slider (49 inch), which is great for me in a small sop as I normally build solid wood furniture.

    I don't know if you're considering the outrigger?

    I added mine a couple of years after I purchased the B3, and it's really great when processing sheet goods or long or heavy timbers. When not in use, it hangs on the wall as it only takes a minute to attach to the machine. I also have the precision mitre index to cover mitres.

    You're going to love your new machine, did you order the mobility Kit?

    Regards, Rod.

  15. #15
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    Derek, that's a really nicely executed setup for your router!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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