Air powered orbital sanders?

[Mark Bolton]

I just finished upgrading my air system. Quincy 80 gal 5hp, refrigerated air dryer, Rapidair Max line pipes, Rapidair filter regulators. To date, my biggest air needs were my widebelt sander and spray equipment. I have two Ceros sanders I am happy with. I am in the market for a 3” air rotary buffer.... Really, the only options are air powered buffers/polishers. There are some electric ones but they look huge and impractical.

I seriously doubt Air sanders will ever be replaced in the commercial and industrial sectors. Take a look at the Dynabrade website. There are many many tools for many applications.

Without a doubt they will always have their place and still do. But your even seeing large facilities, automobile plants, that use to have endless whips of coil hose hanging down at work stations moving to cordless impacts, and other cordless drivers and tooling to reduce the demands of manufacturing air. The envelopes and battery technologies are getting smaller and smaller and more and more powerful and no different than anything, running on electric is less expensive than air. When we have entire assembly plants populating their roofs with solar panels in an attempt to generate every KWH of energy they consume on-site, an sander or drill that requires the equivalent of a 5-7HP motor to power a tiny tool will be quickly evaluated. Right down to spray technology the demand for air is constantly going down.

[Joe Calhoon]

We ruined a couple 5 hp compressors over the years using air sanders and finally put in a Kaeser with a drier and had a down draft table. That keeps up with them but a few years ago we bought a Festo 150 with the vac and use that for most everything now.
The air sanders are more aggressive but the Festo is a lot quieter, cleaner and cheaper to run. It has been going for 6 or more years now. When it goes will probably buy another.

[Albert Lee]

My cost is way different than Martin’s.

I use a single phase 5 HP Quincy compressor. Full load is 28 amps at 240 volts. That’s a 5.6 kW load.
I live in California, where electricity is as expensive as anywhere in the country. I pay 32 cents per kWh. So, running full blast, I pay $1.80/hour to run my compressor for my Dynabrade.

I also have a Festool ETS 125. It has a 1.6 amp motor at 120 volts. That’s a .16 kW load. At 32 cents per kWh, that’s 5 cents per hour.

So, it costs $1.75/hour more for electricity to run the Dynabrade than the Festool. (It will be a MUCH smaller difference for those living in other states where power is cheaper.) On the other hand, the Festool will not last as long as a Dynabrade. The value of that depends on how long they each last, but that means that the cost difference of using the Dynabrade is less than $1.75/hour.

The Festool is a great sander, and I typically use it just because I already have my Festool vacuum near my bench, so it’s easy just to plug the sander in and go. But if I have a long sanding session, the Dynabrade is more comfortable to use. The extra buck an hour or so is not a huge factor for me.

Martin, how did you calculate a cost of $.15/min? That seems high to me, even for a 53 CFM compressor.

I thought the electricity in USA would be cheaper than anywhere else, after all you have all the nuclear power!! we pay about 20 (19-21 depending on the exchange rate) cents USD per kWh. that is residential power, not industrial...

[Van Huskey]

The average cost per kWh in the US is .12 USD. Only about 20% of our power is from nuclear, almost as much comes from renewable sources now. 75% of France's power is nuclear and their price is 50% more than ours. Indian and China have cheap electricity, places like OZ, Germany, and Denmark have very expensive electricity. Those are the places that should move more quickly to electrical sanders in industry and they are.

[Carl Beckett]

I have both electric and air sanders. Having a compressor is useful for other purposes, so that isnt an issue and I dont track electrical consumption.

For me, as a hobbiest, the benefit of an electric sander is that every now and then I want to sand somewhere that I do not have compressed air. This could be the garage or a project in the house or outside setup of some type. I do have a portable compressor, but it wont keep up with extended sanding session and is a hassle to move around (even my portable is on 220V so I cant move it everywhere).

Electrical outlets are plentiful.

I have eyed a sander upgrade (sanding is still my least favorite thing to do). And wallow back and forth between a nice lightweight air and an electric.

My conclusion is that given where I am with the current tools, I could likely get a performance bump by studying sandpaper types vs sander types. I do notice a difference depending on what sandpaper type I put on.

Just a thought.

[Robert Engel]

Which air sanders are you comparing to electric sanders?

3M compared to PC. I think any air sander is going to be better because compressed air is used for exhaust. Its obvious when the sander is running.

Which, BTW, is where any oil people are concerned about will be.....

[Robert Engel]

Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like we’re talking a $1500-$2000 compressor for a decent 5hp compressor. Sound about right? I love buying used machinery my gut tells me to buy new, for fear of an unmaintained machine or rusted tank. .

I bought an Ingersoll Rand on sale at Northern Tool about 5 years ago for $850.

The street price is around $1000. Check it.

[Van Huskey]

3M compared to PC. I think any air sander is going to be better because compressed air is used for exhaust. Its obvious when the sander is running.

That makes sense. The PCs have average dust collection, the Mirka and Festool electrics have SOTA DC with the 3M and Bosch electrics not far behind. The Festool and Mirka will easily match a pneumatic and beat the majority of them.

[Martin Wasner]

Anybody tried the Mirka pneumatic sanders?

My Dynabrades are all well used, but they still sand reasonably well. I might be shocked how much the performance has fallen off if I rebuilt them, or tried a new one. I feel the Deros and Ceros outperforms any of the pneumatics we had though. It'd be interesting to compare fresh to fresh.

[Mark Bolton]

Anybody tried the Mirka pneumatic sanders?

My Dynabrades are all well used, but they still sand reasonably well. I might be shocked how much the performance has fallen off if I rebuilt them, or tried a new one. I feel the Deros and Ceros outperforms any of the pneumatics we had though. It'd be interesting to compare fresh to fresh.

I doubt your going to find much in the way of objective comparisons. It seems most people who default to Dynabrades do so out of habit or jollies. It more often seems to be what people have always used, or what people have always wanted to use (neither scenario involved paying for all the equipment and expense behind the sander). You probably remember the last go around on Dynabrades when the large production shop presented all the options to the sanding crew and the ones running them chose Deros.

I know you like your Deros' but I really will miss the envelope of our Ceros sanders when they die. We are perhaps 4 years in, would have to look back, and am hoping we have a good long while before its something to consider. I can only guess other large shops loved the dynabrade envelope of the Ceros as well and are leaning on their reps to find a solution.

[Van Huskey]

but I really will miss the envelope of our Ceros sanders when they die.

Have you tried the 3M? They have both the 5 and 6 inch with an outboard power supply like the Ceros. I tried a friend's that owns a body shop and it is not quite a Ceros ergonomically but closer than the Deros. You can get them for $500 or less.

orbit.jpg

Meant to mention you can also buy the sander without the supply for a touch over $200.

[Mark Bolton]

Have you tried the 3M? They have both the 5 and 6 inch with an outboard power supply like the Ceros. I tried a friend's that owns a body shop and it is not quite a Ceros ergonomically but closer than the Deros. You can get them for $500 or less.

orbit.jpg

Van,
I have tried desperately to get my hands on a demo or have a rep. drop by with one that I could peck around with a bit. My local auto body shop has quoted me on them a couple times (painful) but they are on my hotlist for the outboard power supply. I believe surfprep also has a similar option but our local distribution dropped our area on Jan-1-18 so getting one of those in hand is also poof. Mentioned in an earlier reply that I travel occasionally to a location with a surfprep distributor there and have planned to call ahead and hopefully get my hands n one.

I have a sneaking suspicion they all come out of the same place as they all look very similar.

[Kelby Van Patten]

Kelby, This will not read the way it should but the simpe fact of the matter is whether you own and maintain the compressor on not has no bearing on the math. The maintenance will go up with additional load, the life of the compressor will be reduced by additonal load.

That's just not true.

To maintain my warranty on my Quincy, I have to do a maintenance every six months, no matter how much or how little I use it. I don't use it enough that it really needs a maintenance every six months, but I do it anyway to keep up the warranty. I wouldn't do any more maintenance if I put in an extra five hours sanding every week (which is way more than I actually do).

As for the life of the tool, as a hobbyist, I don't use it enough that there's any chance that Quincy will die before I do.

It really is just the cost of electricity. And as my math showed, that's not enough to be a major factor in my decision making.

[Kelby Van Patten]

Not once you understand the science of sanding and the economics of ergonomics.

I don't have to understand any science to know that the DeWalt I used to use was unpleasant!

I definitely agree with the suggestion that there's a lot more than $/kWh at stake.

[Martin Wasner]

I doubt your going to find much in the way of objective comparisons. It seems most people who default to Dynabrades do so out of habit or jollies. It more often seems to be what people have always used, or what people have always wanted to use (neither scenario involved paying for all the equipment and expense behind the sander). You probably remember the last go around on Dynabrades when the large production shop presented all the options to the sanding crew and the ones running them chose Deros.

I know you like your Deros' but I really will miss the envelope of our Ceros sanders when they die. We are perhaps 4 years in, would have to look back, and am hoping we have a good long while before its something to consider. I can only guess other large shops loved the dynabrade envelope of the Ceros as well and are leaning on their reps to find a solution.

Most people become fanboys of whatever they have. I like making money, I don't care what color the tool is as long as it's a good value and it brings the dollars in.

I like the Ceros more than the Deros. If they were still made, I would mod the Ceros with a lighter cord. That was my only complaint with the Ceros, the weight of the cord.

The Deros would be perfect if they took the tiny inverter in the handle and put it on the end of the cord.

The big handle on the Deros isn't noticeable with a vacuum on it. You lose all the maneuverability anyways.