Clear Vue Questions

[aaron olson]

Hello,

I have a few questions regarding clear vue's dust collection 1800 or Max. Currently I am running partially on a HF unit that kind of works but I feel was worth the dollars as something is better than nothing but I am looking to upgrade.

I can go in to my situation but I did post that on a different thread so if needed I can do that again?

1. People have mentioned that they have had great luck with them and answering questions. I am wondering if perhaps I need direction to another support person. I sent an email 2 weeks ago. I got a response saying to call them about 4 days later which I did and had a nice conversation. She needed some additional information which I provided the next day and that is the last I have heard from them. I have written and called back a few times now and still have not heard back again. Any suggestions? Maybe they went out of business for all i know.

2. I have a port to the outside current where I had thought about extracting the fines that way. She had some thoughts about this that the air you extract will need to be made up so where I live it is extremes both hot and cold (ND). I heat however, far more than cool. Is this really a big issue? When you make a cut do you generally leave it run for a long period of time after the cut? Maybe I am using what i have incorrectly is why i ask as I generally make the cut and it runs for another 30 seconds maybe before I turn it off.

3. She was recommending the filters for the reason above but I am looking for less maintenance. These filters would be in a small room under some steps is my hope. How often do they need cleaning/replacing? (Hopefully it would fit under these steps that is part of what I am waiting on them for)

4. I feel like skipping the filters and extracting outside is the best idea with less risk to reintroduce the dust back in to the air. Thoughts?

5. I was looking at using this stuff for the main line if I pull the trigger. Will this stuff work ok? I know some will suggest going metal but this is a bit of a stretch on the budget already so looking to save some dollars without sacrificing performance it seems. https://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...72322&ipos=100

6. on a different but similar note. I have an AFS-1000b. Where do folks get there filters for this? Can they be reused and which do you recommend? This unit still relevant in peoples opinion if i were to get a new DC?

If i were to do this upgrade my goal would be to lessen my risk of any additional lung damage (i have some nodules current and don't want them worsening or adding to the number) and have a cleaner dust free space to work in. In addition, i would love to be able to have some downdraft tables where I could possibly minimize the use of shop vacs(so noisy and always need cleaning). Also, i would hope that by upgrading I could get away without risk of wearing my mask less. Can all this be accomplished?

Thanks again for the help.

[Jim Becker]

Clearview has a good reputation and a good, long-cone design. The other option would be Oneida.

Given where you live, venting outside isn't really practical, IMHO. And honestly, there's very little "maintenance" with the filters if the system is operating properly. Once or twice a year for most folks unless you inadvertently get a leak between the cyclone and the bin or overfill and get blow-buy. (That's a rite of passage... ) Return air isn't optional, IMHO, either. These systems move a lot of air, even in a few minutes. That can send a lot of your heat right outside and it can be costly.

S&D pipe is a popular ducting material for home shops because it's relatively inexpensive. The downside is that it's only available in "even number" sizes which sometimes means doing a little dance to adapt to some machines. Long-sweep elbows are also not generally available, so you have to get creative with using 45º elbows and short pieces of pipe to make up a more gentle transition in direction. Etc.

Air cleaners are absolutely still relevant and perform a completely different purpose than a dust/chip collector does. However, a quality dust collection system will cut down on the fines in the shop air if it catches more of the material at the source. And do keep in mind that there are many things we do in our shops that generate fine dust that are not related to our larger machinery. You should be able to get replacement media for an air cleaner from larger woodworking vendors like Woodcraft. Most of these are pretty standard units...I just bought a replacement pleated filter for my JDS from Woodcraft a few months ago. The one I bought fits a whole bunch of different "brands".

[Peter Christensen]

You can put a wye in the exhaust side and dump the air outside when it is warm or even when it is cool and you are using it for a short time. When too cold run through the filters.

Get or make a bin overflow sensor.

Run the DC for a few minutes after the dust producer is turned off.

Open the dust ports on every machine you can to take a 6" port and a way for air to get in to flow through, in other words don't seal a machine tight.

In the Aussie forum the expert tested the dust produced by vacuum cleaners in over a dozen shops and virtually all of them leaked fine dust, even the expensive ones. They will, because they use the filtered air to cool the motor, mince up the dust and make finer particles. Best is to locate the vac outside the work area, better is a central vac located/exhausting outside.

There is also discussions there on making and buying particle counters to monitor the air. Until you have your system sorted out you should make/get one so you know if it is safe to work without your mask.

[Rush Paul]

Hi Aaron,

I use a Clear Vue CV1800 in my shop and I'll try to answer some of your questions in the order you mention them based on my experience:

1. Clear Vue has just started its Summer Sale, so the support person you spoke with (I presume it was Cathy Currier) is likely slammed with calls and emails. In my experience, she will get back to you but continuing with polite follow-up is always good to try. This is a fairly small operation. The Summer Sale is a great time to purchase one of their systems, by the way.
2. Air make-up is a big issue. Any air you exhaust will have to come from somewhere and the CV units will move a lot of air very rapidly. You will need at least as much size intake (possible twice as much) for replacement air as for the air being pumped out the exhaust. A CV1800 has an 8" exhaust so plan for an open door or window to allow air back into your shop.
3. Filters are a very good option, and the WYNN filters supplied by Clear Vue are some of the best available. Cleaning filters is a non-issue with the Clear Vue cyclones as long as you don't let your dust collection bin overflow and back up into the filters. The cyclone is sufficiently efficient that very little material moves past it to the filters. A bin-full monitor is a good investment to make.
4. Sure, extracting to the outside is the best solution for pure dust elimination. But, you have to accommodate the air replacement needs if you do this and consider impact on neighbors, if you have any. I considered exhausting outside and concluded my best solution was filters. I've not regretted it.
5. Yes, that SDR35 pipe is a workable option. The WHITE S&D pipe (D2729) is an even better solution if you can find it where you are. The green pipe has thicker walls and thus a smaller internal diameter. The outside diameters are identical. Just be sure to avoid Schedule 40 pipe. The Clear Vue junctions are perfectly sized for the exterior diameter of the D2719/SDR35 pipe. Also, be sure any fittings you purchase are made for this pipe and not Schedule 40, they are different sizes by fractions of an inch.
6. WYNN ENVIRONMENTAL is a very good provider of high quality filters. They will talk to you and help you identify the right filter, if they have one available that will work for your application.

CV1800 versus MAX. If you are a single user shop and will only have one machine in operation at a time, get the CV1800. The MAX is designed for having two machines in operation at the same time. Clear Vue discusses this somewhere on their website. If you want to increase the airflow of the CV1800 by about 20%, then order the 16" impeller and blower housing option for the CV1800. This is the same impeller as in the MAX, but mounted on a CV1800 cyclone. This combination is what I have in my shop and it works well.

Filters in a small room. One of the advantages I found with Clear Vue is the customization one can do on installation. It allowed me to fit the CV1800 in a low ceiling basement shop by some creative mounting and by building a manifold for the filters to allow the filters to be mounted side-by-side at floor level.

Improving your air quality. If removing fine dust from your environment is important to you, then the Clear Vue collectors coupled with WYNN nano filters is a good solution. But I still wear a dust mask when sanding and when using the saw.

Good luck with your continuing research and decision-making!

Rush

[Steve Peterson]

Lots of good information has already been provided, so I will only comment on my specific usage. A CV moves a lot of air. 1000cfm will replace all of the air in a 500sf shop in about 5 minutes.

I usually rum my CV in 10-20 minute bursts, but there are times when it runs for hours. If you have lots of boards to run through the planer or sander, it can run for a while. I also use it to suck up sanding dust at the lathe. That could be a 20 minute run. The shortest operation would be a quick cut on the bandsaw or miter saw.

I recall somewhere on the CV website that the motor should be started less than 10 times per hour. The startup current is quite large and the motor could overheat if it is started too often. I usually leave it running if the next operation will be within 5 minutes.

[Rush Paul]

I usually rum my CV in 10-20 minute bursts, but there are times when it runs for hours. If you have lots of boards to run through the planer or sander, it can run for a while. I also use it to suck up sanding dust at the lathe. That could be a 20 minute run. The shortest operation would be a quick cut on the bandsaw or miter saw.

I recall somewhere on the CV website that the motor should be started less than 10 times per hour. The startup current is quite large and the motor could overheat if it is started too often. I usually leave it running if the next operation will be within 5 minutes.

I follow a similar pattern to on-off cycling as Steve describes. The original owner of Clear Vue, Ed Morgano, posts in the Clear Vue forum the following explanation (link to post):

Leeson recommends that these motors not be started more than 7 -8 times per hour. For all the information you ever wanted to know about motors, go to www.leeson.com. They have some great technical information.

Single phase motors have two separate sets of winding in them. They have a start winding and a run winding. It is the start winding that is the issue here because the start winding is smaller than the run winding and it draws the majority of the current on startup. Therefore, it will get hot much quicker than the run winding. Repeated starts and stops will burn out any motor with an impeller on it..... Our 15" impeller has a 3/16" backing plate and 1/8" blades and weighs approximately 15#. Even if you could safely make an impeller out of 1/8" plate and 1/16" thick blades (which I wouldn't do), it would still weigh 10# and at 14" diameter, it would still have a lot of inertia to overcome on startup. The locked rotor current draw on our 5hp Leeson motor is 105 amps. What that means is that when the motor is stopped and you flip the switch, it will immediately draw 105 amps.....even with nothing on the motor shaft.

Without an impeller, it will get up to speed much quicker and therefore not heat the start windings as much, but rest assured, it is still heating the start winding some. Granted, the heavier the start load, the more the start winding is going to heat. And, the more often you bring the windings up to very high temperatures, the sooner your motor is going to fail.

I personally think it's better to plan to minimize the noise as much as you can and leave the dust collector running if you are going to be doing something else within 15 minutes. That's just my opinion.

Ed

Frequent on-off-on cycling can also lead to premature capacitor failures due the load of that large impeller. All of this suggests another good practice: start up the blower with all blast gates closed to lessen the amount of air that big impeller is trying to move as it starts up.

[aaron olson]

Thanks everyone as always for the response.

I did get a hold of Clearvue and spoke with them. I didn't realize they had a sale going on now as well. Maybe this really saying buy me as the stars seem to be aligning.

Filters in a small room. One of the advantages I found with Clear Vue is the customization one can do on installation. It allowed me to fit the CV1800 in a low ceiling basement shop by some creative mounting and by building a manifold for the filters to allow the filters to be mounted side-by-side at floor level.

this is part of my challenge getting it in a small room and what I was discussing with them a bit. I am curious on how you were able to get it in to a small room and what rooms others have it in? My situation is 36" wide and seems to be the challenge I have. When I spoke with Clearvue I thought I could move the wall out without issue to increase this size but it seems i cannot easily as the wall supports steps. Has anyone mounted it on a 36" wall? I have the height and depth (height about 9 feet and depth could be what I decide as I will adjust for this so lets say 64 for now)

Sounds like the filters would be in store here as well. Maybe if i can keep the noise down in this room i just run the thing all the time.

[Rush Paul]

My situation is 36" wide and seems to be the challenge I have... I have the height and depth (height about 9 feet and depth could be what I decide as I will adjust for this so lets say 64 for now)...

Aaron, have you downloaded the design drawing for the CV1800? It has all of the dimensions so you can check requirements. The standard wall mounting plate is 24" wide, but you can make a custom mounting plate/bracket of any width greater than the blower hanging/mounting bolts. Note that the cyclone body and the impeller housing can be rotated independently relative to one another to almost any angle you choose. You could have both pointing forward from the mounting plate at angle to each other (perhaps 20 degrees?)

For ideas on different ways people have installed these units, look at the photos in the Photo Gallery at the Clear Vue site.

[aaron olson]

Thanks again for the responses.

If i order the unit is there anything that i should need in addition to the machine?

I would like to use these shop vacs less as well. Is it possible to run lines off of this to a orbital sander for example?

[Matthew Curtis]

I did this for my ductwork. https://www.grainger.com/product/GRE...nap-Lock-6EKF0

I then bought fittings from Kencraft. They seemed to have best price.

I bought some flex hose off Amazon warehouse.

I have use some 2 1/2 flexhose going to my R.O.S. not the best but better than what I was using. I tie into the 4" that is for my over the blade catch for table saw. I have not is this setup much yet as I have been using g the drum.sander for all but finish sanding.

I also needed an 8" fernco fitting to tie in the 8" snaplock to the cyclone. I was lucky to find one at the local Habitat For Humanity store. It was tagged for $2.50. With the green sticker which
means 75 percent off. I got realy lucky

[Rush Paul]

Thanks again for the responses.

If i order the unit is there anything that i should need in addition to the machine?

I would like to use these shop vacs less as well. Is it possible to run lines off of this to a orbital sander for example?

Aaron, if can attach the tool with a 4" port, you can run it off the CV1800 PROVIDED you keep the equivalent of that main 6" duct open at all times. Small ports, 2.5" and under, are the domain of the shop vac (vacuum suction versus air flow - different beasts). For your CV1800, any small connection will kill your air flow. So, the small hand held tools with their 1" and 2" hoses just don't work well - you need more vacuum power to pull air through those small hoses/ports. Read the Bill Pentz site on connecting your tools.

When ordering your cyclone, consider the following:

1. Are you ordering the bundle or purchasing a la carte?
2. Do you want to upgrade to the 16" impeller and housing?
3. Do you need to order blast gates? The Clear Vue blast gates are excellent if using the S&D pipe (D2729/SDR35).
4. Do you need some junctions to split 6" into two 4" lines at the tool? CV's 6-to-two-4s is a pretty good solution.
5. Are you going to purchase CV's dust bin full sensor or build your own?
6. Are you going to use CV's electrical switch or assemble your own?
7. Will the CV mounting bracket work for your installation or will you build your own?
8. Get the WYNN nano filters from Clear Vue if you're using canister filters.
9. Do you know what exhaust transition you need: the standard 90 degree elbow or the straight transition?
10. If you are ordering the Summer Sale Bundle with free shipping, whatever you additionally order now may get bundled into a packing box with the parts in the bundle and save you shipping cost (e.g., blast gates).

Keep in mind for your design: plan on running solid 6" ducts all the way to the machine, or as close as you can. Flex hose reduces air flow dramatically compared to pipe.

[Chris Parks]

Some machines work better with a vacuum cleaner but as Peter C. pointed out they all leak dust and worse than that a lot of them chop up the dust they suck in and spit it out in finer particles which really defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. I haven't done this but I will suggest it as I can't see any problems. Install the vacuum in a semi enclosing box to allow plenty of air flow and attach a 6" duct to that box which will be attached to the cyclone system. If using the vacuum turn on the cyclone to prevent the fine dust re-entering the work space.