Lighten WB stain?

[Jason Parkerson]

In my recent cabinet project I have tried several attempts with General Finishes water based stain (Expresso color). All my samples have been coming out solid black. Definitely not the brown tone I was hoping for.

Here's my technique (Please critique as required)

Using Ash plywood and solid wood.
My final sanding has been attempted at 150, 180, & 220 to see if it would make any difference.
I've also attempted to use GF extender at the max recommendation of 15%. That got me closer to the brown but the second application to even everything up took it the rest of the way to black.

I'm doing small areas at a time, I flooded it on with a foam brush and immediately (within 1-2 min) used a clean cloth to rub across and in circles to work it into the surface. Within another min or so I'm using a neatly folded clean cloth to remove the excess.
At no time was the stain ever on for more than 5 min before the excess was wiped off. (2-3 min was more likely)
FWIW it is very hot and dry here in TX this time of year.

I feel like I need to water it down well beyond the max recommendation of 15%. I'm thinking up to 50%? Just wanted some opinions before I made such a drastic move. Maybe 25% extender and $25 water?

[John TenEyck]

I would get some of GF's WB neutral base and use that to dilute the Espresso. You could make it 90% neutral base and 10% Expresso if that's what it takes.

Extender's purpose is to slow down the drying, not thinning, that's why you need the neutral base. You may still need some Extender in it to give you more time to work with it, but that's a different issue.

I hope that helps.

John

[Jason Parkerson]

Thanks John...

Is it fair to assume that the GF "Pre-stain conditioner - Natural" is the proper product to use as a neutral base? It's the closest thing listed under their WB series of products. I could try blending one of the other lighter colors as well, but that's more experimentation.
I don't really care that my final product matches the original color sample perfectly more importantly that all my cabinets end up looking consistent.

I'm just trying to find the right mixture and technique which will give me consistent results as I will need to do the finishing for these cabinets in many smaller sections.

[John TenEyck]

I just looked at GF's site. They call it "Stain Reducer". That's what you need.

John

[Jason Parkerson]

Not sure If I should create a new thread, but wanted to respond to my original thread with the finished pictures.
Took a lot of trial and error to get the color to match the sample at the store. Ended up having to finish in 7 steps:
Step 1: 1/3 stain w/ 2/3 pre-conditioner + 20% extender
Step 2: 2/3 stain w/ 1/3 pre-conditioner + 20% extender
Step 3,4,5: 3X GF High performance clear (Gloss)
Step 6,7: 2X GF High Performance Clear (Satin)

After a week I brought some of the doors in and laid them on a bed spread to keep them safe and dust free (out of the shop). They ended up staining the bed spread yellow. Wife was not happy about that.
I know I need to invest in an turbine sprayer, but I'm not sure how I would have been able to get into all the nooks and crannies by spraying so I stuck to a brushed/wiping application.
You can see the drawer bank where I first started finishing and ended up WAY too dark (hence the original post)
20191130_122653.jpg20191130_122705.jpg20191130_122754.jpg20191130_123954.jpg20191130_123941.jpg20191130_124027.jpg

[John TenEyck]

They came out great Jason. I would not have expected anything coated with GF's HP and having cured for a week to stain a bedspread or anything else. That would suggest that you didn't apply/leave enough topcoat on to truly form a film and the underlying stain wasn't fully coated and caused the problem.

John