Secondary surfaces in 18th century work

[matteo furbacchione]

Wow! Could you play it down or negatively exaggerate any more? Lol. "Continued to struggle for A FEW MORE YEARS" (when a few universally implies roughly 3...) Honestly lol. I thought that was a bit off so had a look at Wikipedia and didn't realize you were waaayyy off! Try 28 years (roughly 25 years, if you weren't so inclined to do the math) before the business went into bankruptcy. Far longer than most furniture making businesses from then till now have lasted.

And honestly trying to bring ikea furniture as a comparison with Chippendale, or any high end maker, is ridiculous

Now don't get me wrong I'm not typing any of this with malice in my intention, I have a pretty big smirk on my face.

[Doug Dawson]

Wow! Could you play it down or negatively exaggerate any more? Lol. "Continued to struggle for A FEW MORE YEARS" (when a few universally implies roughly 3...) Honestly lol. I thought that was a bit off so had a look at Wikipedia and didn't realize you were waaayyy off! Try 28 years (roughly 25 years, if you weren't so inclined to do the math) before the business went into bankruptcy. Far longer than most furniture making businesses from then till now have lasted.

I think you misread something. Chip Sr died in late 1799, and the firm went bankrupt and was liquidated in 1804. Did that mean that Chip Jr _DIED_? No. It did not render him _completely_ useless as a human being.

And honestly trying to bring ikea furniture as a comparison with Chippendale, or any high end maker, is ridiculous

Now don't get me wrong I'm not typing any of this with malice in my intention, I have a pretty big smirk on my face.

I never compared Chippendale with Ikea: my point was simply that craftsmanship and professional success are not the same thing, _that_ was the ridiculous notion that I was poking fun at. I don't have the time or the energy to _fully_ illustrate that context _here_. The posts are still up, you can look at them. I hope that makes it clearer.

BTW don't leave your Ikea stuff out in the rain.

[Kees Heiden]

In my eyes being professionally succesfull is part of being a craftsman. There are several ways of course to be succesfull and when you need to teach or use your partner's allowance to be succesfull, then that is a valid aproach too, of course. I was too harsh about that.

Edit: If you want to know more about Chippendale jr. have a look here: https://bifmo.data.history.ac.uk/ent...-jnr-1749-1822

He continued to be very succesfull after going bankrupt. And the bankruptency wasn't really his fault either.

[steven c newman]

Sometimes it happens...inconvenient facts are obscured, by the nose one is looking down with.....

[matteo furbacchione]

I think you misread something. Chip Sr died in late 1799, and the firm went bankrupt and was liquidated in 1804. Did that mean that Chip Jr _DIED_? No. It did not render him _completely_ useless as a human being.


BTW don't leave your Ikea stuff out in the rain.

Yes I get it now. You were implying that Thomas Sr. maintained an influence in the business after he retired in 1776 and Thomas Jr. took over... And thus the 4 years was suppose to be meaningful measure...

Also, don't leave your original chippendale out in the rain.

[David Myers]

The following link is to an auction of a cabinet (circa 1715) from the workshop of Louis XIV's favorite furniture maker, Boulle.

Scroll thru the pictures to image 6 to see the workshop stamp and relevant to the OPs original topic, a secondary surface.

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/st.../id-f_1251228/

The are other similar pieces on that site, and some of image galleries include full pics of the backs of the pieces.

Disclaimer: I don't particularly care for these types of pieces; a recent trip introduced me to Boulle (from behind velvet ropes) and I thought of this thread. And although the piece linked above is nice, the $348,500.00 asking price is a bit steep.

[matteo furbacchione]

Here's a view of the bottom of a ~$110000 Chippendale style oxbow front slant top desk

[Brian Holcombe]

The following link is to an auction of a cabinet (circa 1715) from the workshop of Louis XIV's favorite furniture maker, Boulle.

Scroll thru the pictures to image 6 to see the workshop stamp and relevant to the OPs original topic, a secondary surface.

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/st.../id-f_1251228/

The are other similar pieces on that site, and some of image galleries include full pics of the backs of the pieces.

Disclaimer: I don't particularly care for these types of pieces; a recent trip introduced me to Boulle (from behind velvet ropes) and I thought of this thread. And although the piece linked above is nice, the $348,500.00 asking price is a bit steep.

This is neither an auction site, nor is the cabinet from Boulle.

[David Myers]

This is neither an auction site, nor is the cabinet from Boulle.

Apologies for the mistakes. Nicolas Sageot was the maker, a contemporary of Boulle but apparently an independent craftsman.

[steven c newman]

Yeah, and it never occurred to the posters on here, that those repairs were done at a much later date......usually by someone trying to "conserve" them....sometimes 200 years AFTER the piece was made.

Of course, never entered their head. Maybe they assumed the original maker was making repair calls, under warrantee ? Or they just assumed this was how it was made? Just so they can claim, boast even, that the items they build will look "so much better" than these Antiques...

[Brian Holcombe]

Yeah, and it never occurred to the posters on here, that those repairs were done at a much later date......usually by someone trying to "conserve" them....sometimes 200 years AFTER the piece was made.

Of course, never entered their head. Maybe they assumed the original maker was making repair calls, under warrantee ? Or they just assumed this was how it was made? Just so they can claim, boast even, that the items they build will look "so much better" than these Antiques...

It did, i mentioned that on page 1 of this thread

[Kees Heiden]

I was browsing the pegs and tails blog lately. Jack Plane who writes this blog is a very knowledgable retired antique restorer with his specialty being the 18 th century. He was comenting somewhere on the build quality of these French pieces. It was truly horrible. Outside beautifull, inside total disaster. So, no, not just repairs. Original sloppy.

[steven c newman]

Hmmm....suppose we just come back in about 200 years.....and see how the "Modern Method of Furniture Making" is holding up.......

[Patrick Walsh]

The way things are going nothing is gonna be here in 200 years but ashes and ocean.

But yeah crappy dowels, laminate, epoxy, pocket screws conversion varnish = landfill...

IKEA even considered furniture. Not in my book.

[James Pallas]

Everyone has and is entitled to their own opinions of how to complete their work. I try to keep my opinions to be confined to practices that work on the basis of you may have future problems if you use butt joints and glue for a joint in example. Dowels, loose tenons, tenons and splines all work, just different methods. I tend not to worry much about the appearance of secondary pieces. On the other hand I'm a believer in putting finish on the inside of work. Even if I am replacing trim in or on my house it gets backed primed at least. The paint or finish may not be the same color for the inside. It is still done.
The picture is a console I built a few years back. The stretchers and even the drawer blades may no be the same width or thickness, as far as the stretchers, the drawer blades are thicknessed because they need to be. I have absolutely no fear that it will fall apart anytime soon. If the joinery is good and the components are sufficiently strong whether it's smooth to the touch or sized exactly on secondary items makes little difference to me.
Jim