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Thread: I'm finally building my boat.

  1. #16
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    Go for it Malcolm

    Now I'm just curious about material costs for something like this. I'll take a swing at it for an imaginary boat.

    30% hull, mast and spars

    30% sails and rigging

    20% engine and electrical

    20% communications and tech

    Can you adjust these for your project?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bender View Post
    Go for it Malcolm

    Now I'm just curious about material costs for something like this. I'll take a swing at it for an imaginary boat.

    30% hull, mast and spars

    30% sails and rigging

    20% engine and electrical

    20% communications and tech

    Can you adjust these for your project?
    Funny you should ask, as I am doing the math now, about to order my wood. I am making some changes- adding a cabin and increasing the cockpit coaming height. I really have not thought of it in terms of % of total cost, but here is what I am expecting. By the way, I have met with Doyle Sails, but haven't gotten the estimate yet, but the sails are a pretty good ballpark figure. Costs are landed costs so they are including shipping from supplier.

    Plywood for hull and spruce for mast and stringers: $4,000 *This includes a few upgrades like a mahogany sheerstrake and seats, and a teak and holly floor (teak and holly faced ply)

    Sails $2,000

    Mahogany for rudder, stern and stempost, and other parts: Rough guess of $200 because I keep a lot of mahogany already on hand and don't expect to have to buy much.

    Casting bronze rudder gudgeon and pintle: Please, God, let it be no more than $300. :-)

    Centerboard: Well, folks- it looks like it's going to be $2500 in stainless. I am probably going that route. I had budgeted for $1500. I was wrong. Very wrong.

    Engine- Tohatsu 5hp LPG (Propane! I love that.) $2200

    Battery, wiring, VHF, bilge pump, etc.- honestly, I don't want to even think about that right now. I prefer to kid myself into thinking I can build the boat for the above costs.

    Oh yeah- paint- I'm using Interlux. I haven't priced it lately, but it's around $200 a gallon. I will need probably three gallons. (gasp)

    Epoxy- Six gallons is called for, but he wants you to coat it with THREE coats of epoxy. I say that's excessive, especially if using interlux or Awlgrip. I'm using one healthy coat of epoxy prior to paint. I will use Raka UV inhibiting epoxy- even though it's coated- I know the cure times on it and I like to work with what I am familiar with. Roughly $300

    Cloth- I have tons of fiberglass cloth on hand. I would say around $100 for cloth. I bought tons of it a while back and haven't had to buy cloth in a long while. I plan to do below the waterline in kevlar for beaching in sand.


    FYI- if you were building this on a budget and wasn't as much of a stickler as I am for brightwork and using vertical grain wood for everything (I'm a perfectionist to a flaw), and you just went with Oakoume all around, painted floors and seats, and didn't use spar grade spruce for stringers (but still used it for spars) then I would expect around $2500 to $3000 for the plywood and lumber.

    If you lived in the states and were able to more easily get a steel centerboard galvanized, you could make the centerboard of galvanized steel for around $1000, including having the chunk of metal shipped to you, and the cost of galvanizing, but assuming you are going to drive it to the galvanizer yourself and not pay round-trip shipping for that.

    If I can do this in under $12,000 I will be ecstatic. Oh, and rigging- I have most of the rigging already. I don't really want to even think about how much the additional pieces are going to cost. There are tons of hurricane damaged boats here that I am hoping to salvage from (*LEAGALLY and with permission).

  3. #18
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    GREAT NEWS!!!! I found a place that can cut the centerboard from 316 stainless for $1260 all up. I thought I would share the company info: Advanced Waterjet Solutions, Fort Lauderdale, FL.

    Here is a lesson for folks: When you are searching for a supplier in Google, don't just search for "Waterjet Cutting" or whatever- search for "Waterjet Cutting Fort Lauderdale" or whatever city is close to you. It narrows down the list, and often includes the smaller guys that offer better deals. In this case, FLL is close to the shipping dock and so not only is this guy nearly half price on supplies and labor, but I save $300 from the guy that was in Michigan because I don't have to ship it but about 30 miles. SWEET!!!

    I'm so excited!!!! Ordering wood this week also. This project is officially on. Why get the centerboard before the other stuff? Because the longer lead time you can give these metal guys, usually the better deal they will give you. Also I want to have the board when I build the centerboard trunk so that I can make blocking in the trunk so that it fits like a glove and won't bang around on tacks, which I have seen in other boats. I also want to go ahead and foil this thing and that's going to take a lot of work, so I want to be able to just foil a little here and there in my free time and not be rushed.

    STOKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    Centerboard: Well, folks- it looks like it's going to be $2500 in stainless. I am probably going that route. I had budgeted for $1500. I was wrong. Very wrong.
    Just seeing your project post now. Looks like fun! You don't mention the required thickness. Check out the dimensions on a Lightning CB (1/2" thickness and about 5-1/2 feet deep). Might be a stretch to make it work. Many had stainless boards and sometimes can be had for very little or free.
    "the mechanic that would perfect his work must first sharpen his tools.Ē Confucius

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Adamsen View Post
    Just seeing your project post now. Looks like fun! You don't mention the required thickness. Check out the dimensions on a Lightning CB (1/2" thickness and about 5-1/2 feet deep). Might be a stretch to make it work. Many had stainless boards and sometimes can be had for very little or free.
    plans call for 1/2”, but I am using 5/8 to gain a bit of weight to compensate for the cabin roof I am adding, and for the fact that I am mostly sailing with few crew in offshore conditions. I am also adding boxes beside the centerboard trunk for lead weights as needed to tune her. I already have the material being shipped to the cutter.

  6. #21
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    Cool story- I found a pair of portlights on eBay exactly like I had drawn in my cabin rendering. I bought them and the guy messaged me, “Hey, I’m in Saint Thomas- I just use a Florida eBay address.” We met and these came off his Formosa 48 that was wrecked in the storms. I’m really excited about that- giving them new life. I soaked them in vinegar and still have a lot of polishing to do.

    A9C799B5-D917-4BD4-94C2-585DF2BDEFDC.jpgD3358B60-4638-45E8-A52F-C0C146D33223.jpgC33736B8-7D11-4B4F-B8D8-DAA712E0A043.jpg

  7. #22
    With all the abandoned boats floating (or laying) around... you might be able to salvage expensive gear including the kicker.

    My own preference when it comes to motors is that more is better... Sometimes you need to run against the tide/current and the wind or pass under a drawbridge against an outgoing tide... A 5hp may only be marginal for that...

    What is hull speed on that design? Itís no racing boat - but some times itís nice to move faster than 6-8mph when the wind is favorable.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    With all the abandoned boats floating (or laying) around... you might be able to salvage expensive gear including the kicker.

    My own preference when it comes to motors is that more is better... Sometimes you need to run against the tide/current and the wind or pass under a drawbridge against an outgoing tide... A 5hp may only be marginal for that...

    What is hull speed on that design? It’s no racing boat - but some times it’s nice to move faster than 6-8mph when the wind is favorable.
    It is technically a planing hull, so in theory it could exceed waterline hull speed. She is around 18' at the waterline, so rad18 x 1.34 = 5.7 knot hull speed. The bottom is a flat football shape and the first strake fairly flared. I have seen videos of one really scooting along.

    The outboard I will use is a 6hp propane. It is plenty for a backup. This boat is only 800 pounds and should sail well in light airs with all that overhanging sail. I doubt you're going to plane with a motor so no need to go bigger than 6hp.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    It is technically a planing hull, so in theory it could exceed waterline hull speed. She is around 18' at the waterline, so rad18 x 1.34 = 5.7 knot hull speed. The bottom is a flat football shape and the first strake fairly flared. I have seen videos of one really scooting along.

    [snip] It is plenty for a backup. This boat is only 800 pounds and should sail well in light airs with all that overhanging sail[snip]. .
    And now the challenge will be to make your weight. Takes careful building and good discipline to avoid adding a couple of pounds here and a couple there. Got a way to weigh it when you're ready to launch? That will make this thread all the more interesting as we all kibitz and, of course, tell you all the things you've done wrong (after the epoxy has cured).

    And I agree, you'll be a lot faster under sail except in a flat calm. Unless you want to go dead up-wind; just remember, gentlemen don't sail to windward.

    Edit: You may see a flat calm in St. Thomas before the end of the present century. Or perhaps not.
    Last edited by James Waldron; 08-14-2018 at 10:43 AM.
    Fair winds and following seas,
    Jim Waldron

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Waldron View Post
    And now the challenge will be to make your weight. Takes careful building and good discipline to avoid adding a couple of pounds here and a couple there. Got a way to weigh it when you're ready to launch? That will make this thread all the more interesting as we all kibitz and, of course, tell you all the things you've done wrong (after the epoxy has cured).

    And I agree, you'll be a lot faster under sail except in a flat calm. Unless you want to go dead up-wind; just remember, gentlemen don't sail to windward.

    Edit: You may see a flat calm in St. Thomas before the end of the present century. Or perhaps not.
    I am adding a small cuddy cabin (haha. Spell check tried to make that “cuddly” cabin- same thing) so I’m adding in some weight to designer’s specs for that. Also a heavier centerboard to compensate. If I come in less than 1000 pounds with outboard I’m going to be satisfied. He calls for 3 coats of epoxy all over. I’m using one coat and painting with AwlGrip, which is pretty much epoxy in itself, but goes on thinner. I am using carbon/Kevlar cloth for the bottom below the waterline, which actually adds a little weight. 6 ounce carbon/Kevlar is thicker than standard glass cloth and so it absorbs more resin. Since I am beaching in sand, I want Kevlar and carbon/Kevlar gives me added stiffness with the abrasion resistance of Kevlar. A lot of folks build with carbon fiber and think they are saving weight. They will only if they use about 40% lighter weight cloth. Carbon is stronger per ounce, but using carbon won’t make it lighter unless you do a lighter layup. In my case, I want stronger and don’t really care if it adds a wee bit below the waterline.

  11. #26
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    Here is a cool little hand pumped air whistle that I finally got around to restoring. This is going to be a lot of fun pulling up to Dinghy’s (bar) on Water Island or Ivan’s or Soggy Dollar on Jost VanDyke and tooting the horn.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LycdHkJ2S-w

    edit: at the end my 5 year old yells “stop that!” She was getting tired of me playing with it.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    ...designer...calls for 3 coats of epoxy all over. I’m using one coat and painting with AwlGrip, which is pretty much epoxy in itself...
    Don't fool yourself into believing this; it is not. Awlgrip is just paint.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  13. #28
    If it’s going to stay in the water - I would do all 3 coats of epoxy as called for... It’s a lot easier to paint in on in the barn than once it’s in the water.... . I know it’s heavy.... but it gives you some room to sand out scratches and dings before you burn through... Just remember that you will be sailing around the fellows in the video you posted. .

    I know what you are talking about with the weight of a lay up... I re-did the floor in an old fishing boat.... I think I used about 6 yards of mat... so 3 or 4 lbs of mat took 4 gallons of resin + a gallon of Gelcoat paint.... so 40# of resin for 3 or 4 lbs of mat.. Now granted - this is a fishing boat with a nice outboard... So water proof takes precedence over weight. But still... So even if you are *really* good at precisely wetting out your mat/weave - most of the weight is in the resin...
    Last edited by John C Cox; 08-14-2018 at 2:42 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy bessette View Post
    Don't fool yourself into believing this; it is not. Awlgrip is just paint.
    Well it sure is hard paint to get off- especially if you get it on your hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    If it’s going to stay in the water - I would do all 3 coats of epoxy as called for... It’s a lot easier to paint in on in the barn than once it’s in the water.... . I know it’s heavy.... but it gives you some room to sand out scratches and dings before you burn through... Just remember that you will be sailing around the fellows in the video you posted. .

    I know what you are talking about with the weight of a lay up... I re-did the floor in an old fishing boat.... I think I used about 6 yards of mat... so 3 or 4 lbs of mat took 4 gallons of resin + a gallon of Gelcoat paint.... so 40# of resin for 3 or 4 lbs of mat.. Now granted - this is a fishing boat with a nice outboard... So water proof takes precedence over weight. But still... So even if you are *really* good at precisely wetting out your mat/weave - most of the weight is in the resin...
    Actually it gets glassed below the waterline, and I would probably do extra coats above the waterline, but he wants you to put three coats of epoxy on every surface- inside and out. I think that's overkill when you are also going to paint it. One good coat of epoxy should seal most surfaces. The bilge would get more. That may change when I see how the wood soaks up the epoxy. It may take two and who knows- maybe three coats, but good grief that is going to be a lot of work. I'm hoping one coat will seal things up. She gets taped in all the seams around the seats, and fillets at all the joints in the strakes. Any exposed plywood edges would certainly get three coats, as those tend to absorb a lot, but I don't see the need for three coats on every single surface. I'm spraying it with AwlGrip primer and AwlGrip paint.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    ...he wants you to put three coats of epoxy on every surface- inside and out. I think that's overkill... One good coat of epoxy should seal most surfaces...
    No, it isn't and no, it won't. This is where builders get into trouble, thinking they know better than the designer.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

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