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Thread: About to throw jointer in the river

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    About to throw jointer in the river

    I'm at my wits end with my jointer right now. I've owned this older Grizzly 1018 8" for a few years, using it off and on. I built a roubo workbench with it 2 years ago and it did very well. The past few months I've barely done any woodworking because it has caused so much frustration. I don't know if it's because of the spiral cutterhead I installed in January, maybe?

    The issue: The cut is tapering off at the end of the board. It's very obvious listening to it; you can hear the cut being less deep at the end of the board. You can clearly see the board lifting off the infeed table as you get to back half of the board.

    Last week I calibrated the outfeed table parallel to the infeed table as best I could with my veritas 50" straight edge. I used my dial indicator as best I could to shim the cutterhead blocks to be parallel to the infeed table (I found this a bit difficult with grizzly's spiral cutterhead because you have to keep guessing TDC for each cutter). I set the cutters as best I could to ~0.003" above the outfeed table.

    If this machine was flammable I would have already set it on fire.

    Please help. Advice? Anyone in WNC want to lend a hand?

    John

  2. #2
    Is it possible the outfeed table is a wee bit high?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Sounds like outfeed is drooping relative to infeed. Take a long extruded level-6-8' and put it on the outfeed. Raise infeed and check with feeler gauges close to head and at farthest end. Dave

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    I’d first verify that the outfeed table is flat, or within a few thou. Check straight and diagonals.

    I started writing a whole bunch, then realized I was basically copying this video from the woodwhisperer.
    https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/jointer-setup/

  5. #5
    The previous responses cover most of the possible issues; outfeed table flatness, height relative to knife cutting circle and infeed/outfeed coplanarity and you mentioned one more, parallelism of the cutterhead and outfeed table. Take your time to check each one accurately. I assume you have a set of feeler gauges as well as an accurate straightedge.

    Start with checking the tables for flatness. More than .002" deviation can cause a problem, especially if the outfeed table is concave. It may not be cost effective to correct by surface grinding or hand scraping if that is an issue.

    Next, check that the tables are in plane. Your 50" straightedge should be long enough for this purpose, but longer is better. If that is a problem you can try to correct it by shimming the outfeed table ways or adjusting the tightness of the gibs on both tables. This is an adjustment that can be done more easily with a parallelogram style machine.

    Now check the cutterhead relative to the outfeed table. Set your straightedge across the far end of the table and the cutterhead opening and rotate the cutterhead so that it lifts the straightedge. Measure the maximum gap under the straightedge at the table lip at each end of the cutterhead and shim accordingly.

    If the tables are flat and coplanar with each other and the cutterhead then the machine should work if the outfeed table is level with or slightly (.001-.002") below the cutting circle. Set it close to 0 and make a test cut on the edges of two boards as long as your outfeed table. Mate the edges. If there is a gap between the center of the boards and/ or a snipe at the ends, raise the outfeed table in .001" steps. If the boards are convex, lower the outfeed. If after all this you cannot get accurate consistent results, trust your gut and throw the jointer in the river.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Sounds like outfeed is drooping relative to infeed. Take a long extruded level-6-8' and put it on the outfeed. Raise infeed and check with feeler gauges close to head and at farthest end. Dave
    Dave has got it, assuming your technique hasn't changed the end of the outfeed table is lower than right at the knives. As you slide a board down it the wood at the knives is getting higher and higher.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

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  7. #7
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    First off what type of cut error are we talking about? Clearly visible gaps between boards or something very small? You need to measure to the end of the shaft somehow and not cutters. Measuring at the tips of cutters or the cutter body will not work for typical tolerances one would aim for setting up a jointer.

    This appears to be your typical style jointer with dovetail slides. Assuming it cut correctly before the new cutterhead was installed and you did not mess any of that up when you changed out the head I do not think you are far from fixing this. I would not give up.

  8. #8
    Any nicks in the cutter head will magnify the problem. Even dull cutters is a problem. But you did just install the head back in January and the inserts should be fine. I suspect your new cutterhead produces a scalloped surface finish similar to the Byrd head. The outfeed table should be set just below to the lowest cutting point of the head by a couple thousandth. This assuming the jointer is true (flat, tables parallel )

  9. #9
    I could feel your frustration. Your sharing reminds me of another thread from someone asking for advice whether he should upgrade his saw fence and buy a jointer, or get a better saw (or something like that). Many responses told him to go ahead and spend money on a fancy sawfence on a Ridgid contractor saw and a jointer. I cautioned the poster against getting a jointer since he already owns a thickness planer, and pointed out the jointer is not a simple machine to master, not to mention that set-up and tuning issues can be quite challenging.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 06-29-2018 at 9:04 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Vollrath View Post
    You can clearly see the board lifting off the infeed table as you get to back half of the board.
    Joiner are one of our simplest and potentially most frustrating machines to judge by the number of threads on the subject. Your statement above clearly indicates a fouled feed path. When the material is lifting off the infeed table is the balance of the material fully supported on your outfeed table? If not, add some external support (roller stand or whatever) to assure the plane of the outfeed table extends far enough to support the length of the material for the full cut.

    This shows another type of fouled feed path but, is cured the same way so you can get the idea.

    Bad jointer path-2.jpg

    Similar problems can occur if your infeed is too short. If your material is not fully supported by the infeed table, add external support. For a jointer to work correctly the material has to feed consistently past the cutterhead. If the cut does not provide a fully jointed surface any deviations will translate into a fouled feed path if not properly supported. Like I said, they are super simple machines and not smart enough to control things that are not engaged on their reference surfaces. External supports take care of that for you.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 06-29-2018 at 4:48 PM.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SF Bay Area
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    I just went through a rigorous jointer tune-up/set-up. The very methodical, clear and sensible instructions are in John White's book entitled something like "The care and maintenance of shop machines". I recommend it very strongly. Follow the instructions carefully and patiently and you will surely straighten out whatever problems you are having. A most excellent book. -Howard

  12. #12
    Enitially I was thinking the outfeed table sounded to be a bit low in relation to the knives. That was till you mentioned how you had the knives set to the the outfeed table.

    I second Dave’s suggestion that maybe the outfeed table is dropping at the trailing edge?

    Jointers can be soooooo frustrating. My first jointer was brand new and fairly expensive and not setup properly. Being my first jointer I was in no position to muck with it.

    That was about 3-5 years ago now I think? I have since taken a job in a cabinet shop that has been through two crap jointers. The first a 8” Oliver “not the old Oliver, the new blue Oliver” then a Casadei.

    Being forced to use both machines for extended periods of time and having to make them work good enough was a real crash course in jointer setup. I still probably stink at it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Why did you need to shim the cutterhead? Is the shimmed side giving you all of the issues? The tables need to be set off the cutterhead so now you need to shim the tables.
    Don

  14. #14
    I had the same problem when I put a Byrd head in my DJ-20. It went away when I set the outfeed table even with the cutters.

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Pollack View Post
    ...methodical, clear and sensible instructions are in John White's book entitled something like "The care and maintenance of shop machines". I recommend it very strongly....
    Thanks for the recommendation, I ordered one just now. (Amazon even offered some kind of coupon discount)
    Care and Repair of Shop Machines: A Complete Guide to Setup, Troubleshooting, and Maintenance https://www.amazon.com/Care-Repair-S.../dp/156158424X

    Can't have too many reference and how-to books. Well, maybe when I run out of space in my shop library shelves.

    JKJ

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