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Thread: What Operating System Do You Use? / What Unique and Obscure Interests Do You Have?

  1. #1
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    What Operating System Do You Use? / What Unique and Obscure Interests Do You Have?

    I was just curious!

    I've been a long time Windows user, and tried Macs when I started working as a software developer. But about a year ago, I gave Linux a try, and to my surprise, I've fallen in love with it and now use it exclusively on all three computers that I own. It really, really scratches an itch for me that I think most DIY types can identify with: tinkering, customizing, and in general having control over the products I use.

    In the past, Linux was considered "difficult to use" and "only for ultra nerds", but I think that title is quite undeserving in 2018. Modern Distrobutions like Linux Mint are very polished and easy to use, and hardware support has come a very long way. At the same time, it doesn't try to "dumb things down" to the frustrating extent that modern OS's are doing, allowing you to dig down and take control as you learn more and realize what you can do with your computer. I really am of the opinion that the only reason it isn't more popular is because it doesn't come preinstalled on any machines that you buy from the big box stores.

    I'm already a programmer and tinkerer, so perhaps I'm biased, but I've had so much fun with computers that I haven't had in years, and I've gotten interested in so many more aspects of computing simply by them being made more visible and accessible to me.

    I think I might play with other more obscure OS's like the BSD's or even FreeDOS in the near future: for fun, more so than practical reasons.

    On the other hand, I really really dislike the way mobile OS's and things like ChromeOS are going. I definitely see the value in them (convenient, and easy to use), but they're just not for me, and I fear that they are making computing less and less accessible by "hiding" and "locking away" any and everything that makes a computer interesting; those things which give you power and control to do interesting stuff yourself. I mean, by design, I would have never had the chance to learn anything about computers if, as a kid, I had been given a chromebook or an iPad as opposed to a general purpose computer! Nobody was born technically literate, and computers exposing how they work is exactly what allows a user to learn to use and manipulate them, as opposed to just giving up when the magic box doesn't do what you want it to -- or worse yet, not even realizing what you can do with it in the first place!

    Maybe I'm old fashioned (eh? Wait, I'm only 30!), and maybe I'm a minority, but I'm quite happy this way! As with anything, there's truly a broad and diverse world to explore in computing, each niche with it's own ecosystem and culture. And, exploring, along with creating and tinkering, is something that I live for. It's interesting, fun, and empowering, and you just might find yourself in a better place as a result of it!

    That said, this is just my story! I'm curious if anyone else has tried other OS's? How about retro computing? What do you think of the current direction of mainstream OS's? I'm just now exploring all of this and it's incredibly fun and eye-opening.

    Now, I have to go pursue something equally obscure and learn to shave with a straight razor I just bought...

    And, in a very related but more general vain: What obscure thing have you discovered that you would share with the world, even if it's only a "hey, this is cool and you should give it a look!" -esque shout-out? Feel free to diverge from the original topic as much as you like: this is, after all, an Off-topic topic in the first place
    Last edited by Luke Dupont; 06-29-2018 at 11:07 AM.

  2. #2
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    That said, this is just my story! I'm curious if anyone else has tried other OS's? How about retro computing? What do you think of the current direction of mainstream OS's? I'm just now exploring all of this and it's incredibly fun and eye-opening.
    My home machine has always been a Mac. My workplace computers have always been DOS/Windows. Some projects were done on my machine at home and taken to work to use on the Windows side. Mostly art work and page layout stuff.

    You have my full agreement about not wanting my desktop machine to act like a cell phone. Those extra features are what is the reason for paying more for a high powered machine.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #3
    I use or have used pretty much everything. Bought a 128K Mac and one of everything in the store when it launched, and quite a few DOS and Windows laptops including a GRiDcase IIIplus and NEC Ultralite.

    High water mark of my computer experience was a NeXT Cube running NeXTstep 3.3 as a desktop paired w/ an NCR-3125 running PenPoint as a mobile machine --- I'd draw in FutureWave Smartsketch, take notes in PenPoint's notebook, then transfer them to the NeXT and use a Wacom ArtZ tablet. Still have the Cube and the tablet was donated to the Smithsonian by the guy I sold it to (not sure if it's ever been on display).

    Need to get a Sparcstation running w/ OPENSTEP 4.2 (just need to locate the stupid optical mousepad).

    Day to day machine is a Samsung Galaxy Book 12 which I was thrilled w/ as an almost perfect replacement for my Fujitsu Stylistic ST4121 until Microsoft crippled the stylus w/ Fall Creator's Update dumbing it down to scrolling and making it impossible to use in legacy applications --- I've had to roll back twice now and will never update until there's an option to restore the normal pen behavior.

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    I've been using OpenSuse Linux for over 10 uears and successfully got my wife into it a couple of years ago. Aside from the price (free) and versatility, the total lack of malware is a huge attraction. Many Windows users are sitting ducks. Of course Windows is Windows but Linux is any of 100's of distributions and desktops running on them. Also software such as alternatives to Microsoft Office. All those can be very stable and user friendly, they're just not Windows and that's a problem for many. You raise some interesting questions but I have other things I need to do right now. I'll be interested to see what other replies you get. There seem to be several Linux users here.

    Also using Lubuntu on a couple of laptops. The flash drive on my key ring will boot Puppy Linux on any computer I plug it into.
    Last edited by Alan Rutherford; 06-29-2018 at 10:30 PM.

  5. #5
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    MacOS primarily and Windows 10 in a VM when necessary for my CNC design work. The only "Windows" machine I own is the controller for my CNC machine.

    Nothing obscure about me or things I do...I'm just generally weird. Ask my wife...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
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    My understanding is that the MAC operating systems are really Linux with a few tweaks and more closed so you are not allowed to get into the source code.
    Bill D.

  7. #7
    No, Mac OS X runs on top of Darwin, a BSD-Unix derivative based on NetBSD and OpenBSD and the Mach micro-kernel (the current kernel is Xnu).

    The source code is available at: https://opensource.apple.com/

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Dupont View Post
    I was just curious!

    I've been a long time Windows user, and tried Macs when I started working as a software developer. But about a year ago, I gave Linux a try, and to my surprise, I've fallen in love with it and now use it exclusively on all three computers that I own. It really, really scratches an itch for me that I think most DIY types can identify with: tinkering, customizing, and in general having control over the products I use.

    In the past, Linux was considered "difficult to use" and "only for ultra nerds", but I think that title is quite undeserving in 2018. Modern Distrobutions like Linux Mint are very polished and easy to use, and hardware support has come a very long way. At the same time, it doesn't try to "dumb things down" to the frustrating extent that modern OS's are doing, allowing you to dig down and take control as you learn more and realize what you can do with your computer. I really am of the opinion that the only reason it isn't more popular is because it doesn't come preinstalled on any machines that you buy from the big box stores.

    I'm already a programmer and tinkerer, so perhaps I'm biased, but I've had so much fun with computers that I haven't had in years, and I've gotten interested in so many more aspects of computing simply by them being made more visible and accessible to me.
    I currently use Linux and have been using it ever since 2003 when I first had a broadband Internet connection in order to download boot disk images. It was thought of as "difficult to use" 15 years ago as well, which was pretty much just as false then as it is now. It is straightforward to use and doesn't try to think it's smarter than you are, like all MS OSes after Windows 2000 have. Probably the biggest issue in those days was trying to run Linux on a laptop of those days with a broken MS-specific ACPI implementation and fighting with websites that used IE6 "quirks," which were common, particularly in professional or financial websites. Both of those issues have long since been fixed.

    I've used most of the common OSes over the years. I started off using Apple IIs at school. My family's first home computer was an IBM 286 running MS-DOS, which was eventually replaced with an IBM 486 running OS/2 as that's what they ran at his workplace. Schools and colleges typically stuck with Apple products and everywhere else including at home was "IBM-compatible," meaning MS-DOS, OS/2, and later, Windows.

    I've run pretty much every major version of an OS from Apple ranging from Apple DOS on the MOS 6502 in the Apple II, System Software 5/6/7.x on the m68k machines, to OS X on PPC machines. The x86 Apples came along after I was out of college so I've never sat butt at one.

    I've run Windows 3.0/3.1, 95, 98, 2K, XP, Vista, 7, and very briefly used Windows 8.x/10 on my wife's laptop. I've even run some of the funky ones like Windows XP 64-Bit Edition and Windows Server 2003 for Itanium at work. The only versions of Windows that I will say I actually thought were decent for their day were 95 and 2K. 98 was okay, XP stank at first but the longer Vista was out and my work stuck with XP, the less bad XP seemed even though it was still just a buggy and crippled W2K with a Fisher-Price UI. 7 is not horrible but not great. Vista was terrible, and 8.x and 10 are nearly unusable.

    On the other hand, I really really dislike the way mobile OS's and things like ChromeOS are going. I definitely see the value in them (convenient, and easy to use), but they're just not for me, and I fear that they are making computing less and less accessible by "hiding" and "locking away" any and everything that makes a computer interesting; those things which give you power and control to do interesting stuff yourself. I mean, by design, I would have never had the chance to learn anything about computers if, as a kid, I had been given a chromebook or an iPad as opposed to a general purpose computer! Nobody was born technically literate, and computers exposing how they work is exactly what allows a user to learn to use and manipulate them, as opposed to just giving up when the magic box doesn't do what you want it to -- or worse yet, not even realizing what you can do with it in the first place!

    Maybe I'm old fashioned (eh? Wait, I'm only 30!), and maybe I'm a minority, but I'm quite happy this way! As with anything, there's truly a broad and diverse world to explore in computing, each niche with it's own ecosystem and culture. And, exploring, along with creating and tinkering, is something that I live for. It's interesting, fun, and empowering, and you just might find yourself in a better place as a result of it!
    Chrome is frustrating as it is extremely crippled and locked-down. You can somewhat uncripple Chrome on some non-phone devices by rooting it and adding back in some of the stripped-out Linux utilities, but it's generally easier to simply install an ARM Linux distribution and have a fully functioning OS. Or, get a cheap laptop instead of a Chromebook and pay a few dollars more, and trivially install an x86 Linux.

    And, in a very related but more general vain: What obscure thing have you discovered that you would share with the world, even if it's only a "hey, this is cool and you should give it a look!" -esque shout-out? Feel free to diverge from the original topic as much as you like: this is, after all, an Off-topic topic in the first place
    Most things I do and like are obscure.

    - Marrying well, having children only once you have been married for a while and are in a proper situation to have children, and staying married and raising your children.
    - Working for a living instead of being on the dole.
    - Driving vehicles with 8 or more cylinders and manual transmissions. I also enjoy working on them and do essentially all of my own maintenance.
    - Woodworking
    - Shooting, with actually trying to hit the target, using firearms made out of wood and metal, and shooting reasonable rounds and not supermagnums or the latest tacticool round that's considerably less effective than the oft-maligned old .30-30.
    - Saving money instead of blowing it.
    - Reading things on paper.
    - Listening to the radio instead of watching TV.

    My daily driver computer is one I built myself a while ago. It has four 16 core Opterons and sits in a 1990s era beige pedestal server case the size of a two drawer file cabinet. I use a 1987 IBM Model M keyboard which matches the case.
    Last edited by Phillip Gregory; 06-29-2018 at 7:35 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Adams View Post
    No, Mac OS X runs on top of Darwin, a BSD-Unix derivative based on NetBSD and OpenBSD and the Mach micro-kernel (the current kernel is Xnu).

    The source code is available at: https://opensource.apple.com/
    Very true. While it's "similar" to Linux, it comes from a different heritage.

    Android shares a bit with the Linux family, AFAIK, however.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
    I put Linux Mint on a computer and messed around with it. Easy to use. But I eventually went back to my Win 10 machine and all the software that I have on it.

    I've been working on computers since the IBM 1401. Did a lot of work in assembly on IBM 360 computers. I bought the first model of the IBM PC - the one with just floppy disk - and have migrated upward since then, both in HW and SW.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post

    Android shares a bit with the Linux family, AFAIK, however.
    Android actually is a Linux distribution as Android runs on top of the Linux kernel. Quite a bit of the rest of the OS is markedly different from your typical Linux distribution as Google changed the filesystem tree significantly and use a lot of their own non-standard system utilities and userspace (such as no glibc or busybox.)

  12. #12
    The thing that kills me is I was really happy w/ the Samsung Galaxy Book 12 until Fall Creators Update --- I'm trying to sort out a replacement, and unfortunately, I need to use a pair of apps which run only on Windows or recent versions of Mac OS X, so Linux or Android or Chrome OS isn't an option. Currently considering:

    - iPad Pro w/ Apple Pencil --- I have to have the option of using a stylus to draw, annotate and write and take notes.
    - Mac Mini
    - AstroPad to allow me to control the Mac Mini using the iPad Pro

    The other option would be to get a Mac Mini and Wacom Cintiq and give up portability, but I'm chained to a desk all day at work, and I'm not willing to be so limited at home, nor to not be able to use my machine when travelling.
    Last edited by William Adams; 06-30-2018 at 9:35 AM.

  13. #13
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    One of the keys to happiness running *nix IMO is don't try to do so on bleeding edge or obscure hardware. For example, people are having video problems with the new Ryzen APUs, I think any Ryzen with 'G' after the model number. I'll bet in a few weeks or perhaps a few months the problem will be fixed. The reason for this as I understand it is that Microsoft and Apple get previews of hardware some time before it's released to the public so have time to fix or develop drivers to work correctly with the new hardware. Linux vendors do not have the same early access so are not aware of hardware issues until it hits the shelves. OTOH I'm typing this on a 8+ year old AMD Athlon II and it runs Ubuntu just fine. I have a 2000ish HP that came with Windows ME. It has a light weight distro and is pretty slow for daily use but does yeoman service as a torrent box (nope, no pirateware to be found) hosting more obscure distros with shoestring budgets and resources.

    Linux distros are typically installed via a DVD or flash drive. These 'live' sessions will show a desktop and be functional but usually don't save anything by default. There are times I don't want to save anything, like malware picked up from an infected banner ad on a web site. Shut it down and everything not part of the original download is gone. It's also possible to create a fully functioning install on a flash drive. I have a couple of these to play with and can be used for specific purposes. For instance, I could have an install just for financial sites and that flash drive install isn't used for anything else so the odds of picking up a nasty should be pretty slim. I don't know how durable flash drive installs will be so have at least one backup of critical data but that's wise anyway.
    Last edited by Curt Harms; 06-30-2018 at 7:11 AM.

  14. #14
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    I've been using OpenSuse Linux for over 10 uears and successfully got my wife into it a couple of years ago. Aside from the price (free) and versatility, the total lack of malware is a huge attraction. Many Windows users are sitting ducks.
    Linux is far from safe. It's both as vunerable and riddled with malware as Windows.

    https://www.av-test.org/fileadmin/pd..._2016-2017.pdf

    That's the report for 2016/2017.
    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." - John Lennon

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt View Post
    Linux is far from safe. It's both as vunerable and riddled with malware as Windows. https://www.av-test.org/fileadmin/pd..._2016-2017.pdf That's the report for 2016/2017.
    Did you actually read that report? Yes it says Linux malware has tripled. In fact the only graph about Linux shows reports of the Linux-based Tsunami Trojan having increased from 2 in July, 2003 to a whopping 227 late in 2016. That's an increase of 100 times or more. 227! Compare that to 7,628,795 instances of the most common Windows Malware (Page 8 of the same report).

    In addition, most Linux malware problems have been in routers and other devices and on servers. Not home PC's. See Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware: "...As of 2018 there had not yet been a single widespread Linux virus or malware infection of the type that is common on Microsoft Windows; this is attributable generally to the malware's lack of root access and fast updates to most Linux vulnerabilities..."

    There are few absolutes in life and only a fool would say "never" about Linux, but in comparison to Windows, I stand by my statement. IMO Linux without anti-virus software is safer than Windows with anti-virus.
    Last edited by Alan Rutherford; 06-30-2018 at 6:28 PM.

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