Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 34

Thread: Importing Combination Machine from China as an Individual-- My Adventure (So Far)

  1. #16

    Jaya/Zicar ML310G Initial Review

    So while I haven't put a ton of hours on this machine yet, I thought it'd be worthwhile to share my first impressions while they were still fresh in my mind.

    It looks like I left things off at unpacking and assembly. Again, while the paper instructions were relatively worthless, it went well. All of the hardware was pre-installed (it wasn't a bag of mystery bolts and trying to guess the location) and the machine made it halfway across the globe with only a few scuffs in the paint. Overall, after assembly, most everything was already set up well, level, and true. It did not seem as if this was something they thoughtlessly slapped together.

    First of all, a couple of overall pictures of the machine how she sits today:
    IMG_20180713_211414.jpg
    Above: General view of it, 2 year old dog for scale. Please excuse the messy shop-- in between my ongoing projects, selling my old equipment, and rearranging the shop there is a lot going on.
    IMG_20180713_211506.jpg
    Above: A view of the controls as well as peek at the planer. Sidenote, while I added the magnetic strip for the tools, they included EVERYTHING you needed to assemble or maintain it.

    So, first thing I did (after wiring in a new cord with the proper plug and enough length to reach an outlet) was order some retractable casters as you can see in the second pic. I ended up attaching them to some 4" angle iron before bolting them on the machine. It's not super easy to move on the casters-- I mean, it's still 1400 lbs, but I can move it on my own, so that's good enough. I don't anticipate moving it often, so it's not a big deal. It did add about 3" of height to the machine, but it was sitting lower than all of my other equipment to start with, so it worked out well. At the moment I have scraps of wood under the slider outriggers, but I'll sort out a better solution at some point.

    Walking through the machine
    The slider: Beefy and smooth. I can sit on one end of it and it slides smoothly. There is no play in it and the extrusion seems beefy. However, setting the fence on the slider to 90 degrees was more frustrating than I would have liked. There is a nice, bold angle scale on the table (see pic below, that is 0/90 degrees), but it's off be about a degree.... and riveted down. No adjustment.
    IMG_20180713_211544.jpg
    The fence pivots on one end (solid and tight, no play), and then clamps on the underside below the angle gauge. It seemed solid, but I noticed if you gave it a good whack, you could nudge the fence-- there was no hard stop. From another project, I had a mini XY table, so I bolted that on (see pic below), then scooted it over to make contact with the extrusion and locked it down-- ta da! An adjustable hard stop.
    IMG_20180713_211606.jpg

    The saw:
    Runs smooth and true. It takes a 12" blade on a 30mm arbor. Well, it's a 25mm threaded arbor that steps up to 30mm. Because of this, I was able to drop my 10" blade in and use them for a bit... but for a couple of reasons (such as adjusting the riving knife, compensating for it not really being fully seated when measuring, etc.), I think 10"-ers will be more hassle than they are worth. I'll probably sell all of those and pick up a couple of 12" blades. The arbor is not keyed or pinned to the blade-- one single 30mm hole in the center is it. Dust collect on the saw is okay. I was cutting some thin strips that actually fell down the small gap and they were a pain to get out of the dust collection chute/hose-- and there is plenty of saw dust under the saw now-- so I can't say the dust collection is any better than "okay"

    The fence: The extrusion is nice and solid and the scale has two sets of measurements-- one for the low side of the extrusion fence towards the blade, one with the high side towards the blade. That is where everything good with the fence stops. The scale is in metric (understandable, though the planer is in metric and imperial) and the 3/4" wide window to read the measurements has no line (see pic below). You have a 3/4" wide window and you get to guess where the fence is. What a joke. It tightens down nicely-- but as you tighten it, it shifts about 1/16 to 1/8" (I probably need to file the end of the bolt, but still annoying). The fence does have an attached metal guard for the jointer I will probably remove (in case you were wondering what the orange metal flap is-- and it's backwards in the main pic). But, all in all, I'll likely replace the fence in some fashion. I have never used or owned a slider before this, so I don't know how much I will use the fence, or in what capacity, but once I figure out what I want to do, this fence set up will be in the trash.
    IMG_20180713_211644.jpg

    The jointer: It's a 12" jointer with two blades and is the "normal" design (not a Tersa head). It runs well and I have no complaints. It locks down nicely (the tables flip up to use the planer) and the adjustment is pretty straightforward. The guard design is nice-- it's the Euro style that you can raise or lower depending on the board thickness. However, I had a good chuckle when I realized it was made out of wood (pic below). It's not going to damage the blades if it get's pressed down into them somehow, but I'll have to find a better substitute material at some point.
    IMG_20180713_211518.jpg

    The planer: I love it. I am stepping down from a 15" planer to a 12" (it uses the bottom of the jointer as you'd expect), but it's solid and planes well. I never used my 15" to the full width, so hopefully this will do for the foreseeable future. I don't have any good pics of it, but it has a single column that raises and lowers a cast iron platform. The handwheel turns smoothly and easily (though I am already thinking about how to slap a stepper motor on there to automate it), and while the cast iron platform has some rotational play, there is zero up and down slop at all. In fact, I ran some 3 foot oak boards through there the other night and I couldn't see any snipe--I'm sure there's a little bit, but it is nothing like what I saw on my 15" planer (which I thought was already good). I forgot to mention, one thing I'm not a huge fan of is the infeed roller that pulls/pushes the wood through has some SHARP (or jagged) ridges for gripping the wood. If you take a big enough cut, it doesn't matter, but it is stupid sharp. The outfeed roller is nearly smooth steel (some tiny ridges/machine marks that run parallel around the roller) and doesn't seem to be an issue. Also, the planer has only one feed speed, but it seems reasonable. I was content with the quality of the wood surface that came out of it.

    The mortiser: This attaches to the side of the planer/jointer (pic below-- inside the orange guard is a drill chuck), but I haven't so much as mounted the table. It looks smooth and solid like the rest of the machine, so I think it'll work well.
    IMG_20180713_211721.jpg

    The shaper: Runs smooth and they included a head (with straight blades-- I had a pic attached, but ran over the limit) but I have not run any wood through it yet. It is a 30mm diameter shaft. The also included some guards/guides for using it (not pictured) that look pretty straightforward.


    My modifications: Besides the wheels, power cord, and magnetic tool strip I have already noted, I think the only other thing I have really done is mount my Bench Dog cast iron router table (pic below). There was a blue, sheet metal table there (and it was sturdy), but I wanted a router table and the dimensions worked well. I was even able to use the lower supports for the sheet metal table and it's sturdy. I'd be leery about sitting on the end of it, but I have no concerns for anything short of that or general use.
    IMG_20180713_211525.jpg

    I think that mostly sums things up at the moment. They included a number of small accessories I didn't show and I skimmed over some details-- but overall I am stoked about this machine. The fence is a joke, but everything else on the machine seems solid, decent quality, and relatively well thought out. For example, I couldn't get the thing to start the other day. After pulling out some hair and taking a multimeter to things, I found the problem. There are a number of microswitches throughout the machine and I left an access door open. With the door open, it won't start. There are a couple on the jointer and planer also. I forgot to mention above that the red e-stop buttons are well placed and work well-- but the plastic is a bit brittle. I wasn't paying attention and hammered one with my knee and did crack part of one, but I'm still considering that not a huge deal. I think I have a couple of those buttons and enclosures in a drawer somewhere (I tinker a lot), so I'll get a new one on there soon enough.

    This post has turned into a novel, so I'll wrap things up. Overall I am happy with my ML310G from Zicar/Jaya (and the customer support has been great as well-- I had a question about where a small part was installed and the next morning they sent me a close up picture of it installed and an explanation. Couldn't have been clearer) and look forward to really putting it through its paces.
    Last edited by Matt Schrum; 07-14-2018 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Did you really think I wrote that long of a post without a typo?
    Licensed Professional Engineer,
    Unlicensed Semi Professional Tinkerer

  2. #17
    Nice looking Vizsla!

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
    Posts
    6,931
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Nice looking Vizsla!
    Yep, that's a pretty one for sure. I have the same shop mates.
    Is that one of Hank's, Rebel Rouser dogs?
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    Yep, that's a pretty one for sure. I have the same shop mates.
    Is that one of Hank's, Rebel Rouser dogs?
    Are you on Instagram? I think I follow somebody who has a woodshop and a pair of Vizslas. Mine pretty regularly shows up on the company Instagram page.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
    Posts
    6,931
    Martin

    No, I've never been on Instagram. I did post on a Vizsla Forum for a few years, but haven't been active in quite awhile
    As an aside, I've had Vizlsa's since 1988. Absolutely great pets and bird dogs.
    Mine have all been Upwind dogs, which were crossed out to the Rebel Rouser line in the 80's and 90's. I think I have among the last of the Upwind dogs there will ever be, as the breeder passed away in 2009.

    Matt
    That is a good looking Vizsla you got there. The machine is nice too.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  6. #21
    I wish I liked eating pheasant. Mine is 13 months old, abd the predator switch turned on in her in a matter of weeks it seems. Not interested to chasing down scents like crazy. Great dogs, albeit very stubborn.

    Sorry for the hijack Matt. It's just an uncommon breed and I'm always surprised to see one.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,850
    It's really nice that that BenchDog table fit in that spot like it did!

    Thanks for the update.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #23
    Ha, you're fine guys. She's a handful and a heckuva dog-- we got her from a breeder in Iowa out by my folks. We have a Weimaraner as well that occasionally makes appearances in my project pictures.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Central Missouri, U.S.
    Posts
    1,263
    Certainly gives new meaning to the term BenchDog!

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    It's really nice that that BenchDog table fit in that spot like it did!
    Right? That was luckier than I could have expected. I was anticipating making my own router table attachment-- in fact, I was looking at your slider set up with the router for ideas while I was waiting for mine to arrive.
    Licensed Professional Engineer,
    Unlicensed Semi Professional Tinkerer

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,850
    Yea, I lucked out with the fit on mine, but I didn't have the J/P piece to contend with that you do!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. I'm "shopping" for a combination machine as well. That said, I don't know if I have the stomach to go through all of the steps for importing a machine myself.

    I'm curious about one thing. Why did you add the router table? Doesn't the shaper do everything that the router will do? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I've never worked with a shaper.

  13. #28
    That saw looks like an amalgamation of many many,... many, imports out there. The slider is identical to what Laguna was bringing in on their 10 year old sliders. The bonus is if you dont count your time, youve got about 3K in the bank for replacement parts and fab'ing your own work arounds for issues that arise.

    I agree with others that this is pretty interesting to see in action. Its always amazed me how places like Laguna and Grizzly can ship a machine and then just send endless quantities of repair and replacement parts ad nauseum until their customer finally "goes away". This pretty much clarifies a lot of that. What you paid for a single (or even if you got a buddy to jump off the cliff with you) is likely way way way more than they will ordering in quantity and they likely have miles of latitude with regards to the "manufacturer" shipping replacement parts that their customer isnt satisfied with for free. It will be interesting to see if you are able to get (or even bother to try) parts when your issues arise.

    We had an issue with one of the above (not green) and they absolutely made things as right as they could to the tune of shipping an entire replacement machine (to the tune of 9K) and never picking up the original (which we have canibalized for parts) AND shipping us a small machine of our choice (to the tune pf another 2K) for our headache and patience with the original nightmare.

    In the end if you honestly value your time at zero, and as you say, like to tinker/work on stuff, you may come out in the end with a fairly reasonable machine.

    I applaud your effort but from the photos it may be a very rough slog.

    I hope you keep up with the updates.

  14. #29
    Mickey,
    I popped the router table on there as I already had it and have an assortment of bits. The shaper is a router on steroids, but I have yet to build up my arsenal of heads/blades for it. On top of that, for smaller work, I'd feel much more comfortable using the router in the future-- for example, I think it'd be easier and safer for me to round over the edge of a 8" x 10" piece with a quarter round+bearing bit on the router than try to navigate that past the shaper. The immediate project I wanted the router in there for is dadoing some slots in the middle of some melamine sheets for a closet organizer. The machine does not accept a dado stack and I'd rather not have to run the router by hand along a temporary fence if I don't have to.

    Mark,
    I wouldn't say I value my time at $0, but I do enjoy tinkering and I am not working in a production environment, so I imagine I have more leeway than many people. That and there was no way, as a hobbyist, I could ever justify dropping $10K-20K on such a machine-- it was (and remains) out of the realm of possibility. After 2-3 days of getting everything all set up, it has run great with minimal tweaking-- and I've put a number of hours on it with a few different projects. I've replaced the main metric measure with imperial and that's the last big thing I did. I'm not sure what concerned you in the photos, but I think my "rough slog" is over. I'll try and get some more updates in and a short video tour in the next few weeks if I can. I haven't had to do any custom machining or fabbing of spare parts-- but at least I do have the ability (or the friends) to do that if something surprises me down the road.
    Licensed Professional Engineer,
    Unlicensed Semi Professional Tinkerer

  15. #30
    Matt, that all makes sense to me. It sounds like shaper blades can get pretty expensive too. I wish you luck with your new machine. It seems great!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •