Importing Combination Machine from China as an Individual-- My Adventure (So Far)

[Matt Schrum]

The below is a summary of the process I went through to buy and import a Euro style 5-in-1 combination machine from China. I apologize in advance for the length of the post-- I could find virtually no information online as I went through this process myself and I wanted to share for others considering the same leap of faith. Unless you're looking at buying one of these (or you're procrastinating that next project), this probably won't be too exciting for you.

So, here it goes:
I have a two car garage, or more accurately, half of a two car garage as my wife appreciates being to pull her truck in when the weather calls for it. I currently have a 6" jointer, 15" planer, a table saw with extended wings (50"-ish capacity right of the blade?) and an attached cast iron router table. Add in the full sized wood lathe and a good sized CNC machine, and space is tight (I came from the Tetris generation and it shows). I've wanted to upgrade to a sliding table saw (4'x8'x3/4" melamine is fun on a "normal" table saw) and came across the Euro combination machines. It looked like it'd maybe save me some space and I'd get a slider, what's not to love?


I got a hold of one of the name brand reps and they put me in touch with a local woodworker that had a Hammer C3 31. It was nice, but it just didn't quite feel like $10-13K nice to me. If it was $5-7K, then I'd probably be typing a different story. I spent months monitoring the used market, but even near a major city, not a whole lot popped up.


So, I knew they manufactured a lot of major woodworking machines in Asia and I looked into it. I found a machine with virtually all of the specs I wanted from a manufacturer that'd sell them individually (many have a minimum order of 2+) on Alibaba. After LOTS of emails back and forth with questions, asking for pictures, and clarifying specs, I placed an order in the middle of March. About $3500 for the machine and $350 shipping to get it from China to Denver, Colorado-- 50% on order, 50% on ready to ship. It looked to be good quality through the pictures (and two crappy YouTube videos), but I figure I am handy and I have a buddy with a machine shop. If something does go wrong wrong, it'll get fixed. I should also point out that the base price was lower ($3100ish?), but what's that, you want 220VAC and 60Hz? Yeah, that costs more, it's not standard. I forget what else, but you get the idea, you deviate slightly from the usual and you can add on a week and $250.


Speaking of problems, so during the order process, the online marketplace tossed in a free inspection for orders over $XXXX amount. So, over a month after I placed the order the machine was ready to ship (May 8 if you're keeping score at home) and I got the inspection report-- what a joke. The same report said it was crated and that they tested all of the functions of the machine. I find it hard to believe that they had it assembled, ran it, broke it down for crating, and crated while the inspector was hanging around-- and that they had 220VAC, 60Hz power to run it. What was useful about it was that I got more pictures. I found out a typo on the name plate ("moter"-- which really bugged me, although it's minor) and that they put a US 110VAC plug on it. I told them it was the wrong plug for the US and tried to get a discount (worth a shot), but was told that they've never had anyone complain about it before and I'd have to change it myself. Bah humbug.


So, inspection report is in, the machine is crated, and it's ready to ship-- I paid the last 50% and thought I was good to go. Yeah, about that. When I ordered, I made it clear that I was one person, did not have a freight company on retainer, and they needed to get this thing to Denver with zero help from me. I've never imported anything and I didn't want to hose the paperwork and have things get hung up. Well, turns out there is still some legwork to do. They sent me the Bill of Lading and asked that I have an Importer Security Filing (ISF) form filed by my agent-- and they need that form filed before they can load the cargo on the slow boat over here. Well, I don't have an agent and I wasn't going to pay one $300 to do some paperwork. I'm stubborn. So I looked into it and the ISF form requires a Importer of Record IRS Number-- which, if you're an individual, you can fill out a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) form 5106 for free and get it yourself (it ends up that they use your SSN-- they just need your information in the system so they don't reject the shipment at the port). Awesome, filled out CBP 5106 and... and, wait, how do I file this? No directions online, no email address to send it to, no Submit button, no directions about how to actually file this thing. What the heck. I called Customs (we have an office here in Denver) and they said I could come by and drop off the form. So, I did and a few hours later I got confirmation I am all in the system. I'm an importer now, great, good to go! Well... not quite.That got me the Record IRS number, but you have to fill out another form to be in the system to actually file an ISF-- but it's also free. Except that it can take up to two weeks to get approved and my equipment is sitting on a dock waiting to be loaded. Wish I would have known that sooner!


So, I broke down and contacted a local freight company that deals with international shipments and imports. $75 and two more forms later, the ISF was all filed. If you don't file this yourself, have a real, live person do it-- don't do it online on those "File immediately for $90/$120/$200!". It looked complicated to do and they charge you more than you need to be because they want to have you pay to secure a bond for the shipment. For personal shipments for non business reasons, you don't need to have a bond. Go local, get a person that does it every day and pay the fee-- plus, in my case, it was cheaper by $15 and the lady was super helpful.


So, I got that all straightened out and my crates were loaded on the slow boat around May 18-20. There's no real tracking for containers in the middle of the Pacific, so I waited. On June 7 I received an arrival notice (well, phone call asking for my email so they could send the notice) from a freight company that my shipment was in the port of Los Angeles, yay! Also, it's going to be taken out of port and put in a warehouse, you owe us $90. Well, crap, at least I beat the 25% tariffs. To be honest, that $90 fee might have been it clearing customs? I had planned on doing that here in Denver (free and sounded easy--and clearly told the Chinese vendor I'd do it myself a few times), but when I called the local CBP office, they said it was already cleared. I balked to the vendor about the fee because I couldn't have been more clear that I wanted this thing to make it to Denver without any help on my side. Their reply was fairly blunt and said the fee wasn't their problem (more or less). I don't know if it was a translation issue or if they never knew about the fee, but I was irked-- at least it was finally here in the States.


After it cleared port, got moved to a warehouse, then loaded on a truck Thursday and I got notice that it arrived here in Denver on Monday (June 25th) and was ready for pickup once I coughed up another $85 (come on, more warehouse fees?!) and got a form from CBP saying I was in good standing with them. I talked to CBP on the phone and all I need to do is bring in my Bill of Lading, they will stamp it, and I can present that to the warehouse. I'm going on Friday to pick it up from the warehouse (buddy has a flatbed trailer and a forklift for unloading it once it's at my place-- ~1500lb ship weight).


So, after about 4.5 months and about $4K (a little over after warehouse and freight fees) I'll have a 8.5' slider, shaper, mortiser, 12" planer, and 12" joiner combination machine. We'll see how the adventure continues and I will post more once I unpack, assemble, and fire the thing up. I'm plenty nervous about the quality or potential issues (and have not sold any of my existing equipment just for that reason), but I'm fairly confident it'll all work out. If you have any questions (now, or if you're reading this two years from now), shoot me a message and I'll do what I can to help. If you search "ML310G Combination machine", you'll see what I ordered-- and I'll get some video reviews up later this year once I settle into the machine and have it all set up.


Hopefully I'll have another post to add here (and pictures) in a week or three.

[Peter Christensen]

I’ll thank you for blazing the trail few would try. I look forward to seeing how the rest of your story unfolds.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Very interesting! Please continue with updates!

[Joe Adams]

You, my friend, are a braver man than I.

The most I've done was import a couple of cans of wood finish from Germany via eBay.

[Patrick Kane]

Ha, this is quite the story. I will be very interested to hear how this ends up once you get it home and working. What design is this a knock off of?

Im not certain for $4k, but for probably $5-7K you could have had a used minimax from the states. They dont come up often(4-6 months ago i feel like i saw a handful pop up within weeks of one another), but in a year of looking you would have a few shots across the country. Much like your adventure overseas, you need to get comfortable with buying without touching or running the machine. The importing paperwork and dealing with translated emails sounds god awful.

[Matt Schrum]

Ha, this is quite the story. I will be very interested to hear how this ends up once you get it home and working. What design is this a knock off of?

Im not certain for $4k, but for probably $5-7K you could have had a used minimax from the states....The importing paperwork and dealing with translated emails sounds god awful.

To be honest, I'm not familiar enough with the name brand offerings to know what this is a knock off of. Once I get some pictures up, I'm sure it'll look familiar to someone. I did consider some of the newer offerings, but the ones in my price range had a short slider. I forget which one (C 26 Genius?), but the slider was like 45", not even enough for a sheet of plywood the short way.

As far as used equipment popping up, I had saved searches set up for within 100 miles of me-- so I suppose I could have expanded that. I just found it hard still paying $7-15K for a 10-15 year old machine (for the ones I did see). And shipping from the other side of the country was going to cost me another grand or two, so really it became easier to look to China. How in the heck they managed to get it from China to CA to CO for under $400 is ridiculous.

For the emails and translation issues, yes, it was pretty terrible. In fairness, the English skills of the lady I was corresponding with was pretty good-- but trying to translate or simplify technical questions was a pain (try translating "dado stack" to conversationalist English). I eventually gave up trying to get some details and just crossed my fingers.

Should be picking it up tomorrow morning if all goes well-- and I will continue to update this forum. Like I said, fingers crossed it all goes well-- otherwise my wife will never let me live down this purchase!

[eric burns]

Pretty wild. Looking forward to updates on this.

What advice would you give someone if they wanted to go this route, if you were to do it over again?

[Brad Shipton]

I imported some CNC servos direct from China and was about as reluctant as you. This company had been selling on ebay for some time, and had many very good reviews. I was still nervous, so I started with a small order of a single name brand servo that was less than 1/2 the cost here for the exact same part. The deal went very well and in my case the email discussions went very very well. North America, US in particular, is a huge market full of people with coin. They are very motivated.

There are many in the US and Canada that have created their CNC business by importing direct from China and marking up for resale. One you have searched Alibaba enough you start to recognize the parts. The trick is finding a supplier that holds their specs and machines the parts consistently to the tolerances they claim to meet. We have a member in the CNC forum that has retrofitted a number of import machines and he has shown some of the problems he has found when he takes them apart.

In fairness, a dado stack is North American. If you were buying from someone in Europe they would be about as confused as they were in China. SCM and Felder make models to export to North America equipped with a dado stack.

[Chris Parks]

I was lucky with my importing experiences all of which were VFD's. I approached a company and told them it would be ongoing with ongoing orders and they were excellent to deal with and I had a single contact person who spoke and wrote Australian as good as I do. I even had a few technical problems early on and they rang me from China to help so support does not get better than that. On the other hand I have heard some horror stories that never turned out well.

[Alex Zeller]

A coworker imported a press for rapeseed to turn it into oil. He went through the same process (give or take as I can't remember all the details). But the price difference made it worthwhile. I'm not sure if I would have the guts to do it myself. It seams like this would be a great place for someone familiar with the process to make some money. For example if the OP's $4000 adventure cost him $4500 and required nothing at all and could have saved a month or so I'm sure more people would be tempted. Not only that but if you could line up more than one customer for a particular product so you could meet the minimum quantity, say have a website where people post what they want and wait for a second person to say they want one two. As long as the buyer paid directly so you wouldn't have to use your money there wouldn't be too much of a downside. I think you would quickly learn the ropes and make contacts that would make the process even easier.

[Matt Schrum]

Pretty wild. Looking forward to updates on this.
What advice would you give someone if they wanted to go this route, if you were to do it over again?

As of right now, the only advice I would probably recommend is to use a broker and don't handle the importing yourself. I was on the fence about this, but one more paperwork snafu (that was not my issue or something I could do anything about) cost me about 4 hours in phone calls and waiting for things to get straightened out. I had the day off, so it wasn't a huge deal, but depending on what I think my time is worth, a couple of hundred bucks at the beginning probably would have saved me a week on shipping and made the day of pickup go a lot more smoothly.

So, enough about paperwork problems, I got the crates picked up (thank God for friends with flatbeds and forklifts) and dropped off just inside my garage late Friday night. I popped the top of the crate off Friday just to make sure wit wasn't full of sawdust and bricks, then left it for this morning. I got the thing uncrated this morning, and the crate was absolutely mediocre/adequate. It looked like heck, was made of thin plywood (not a single 2x4 at all), and probably wouldn't have put up with much more handling--- but, upon opening it, everything was packaged nicely within the crate with no real damage. A couple of corners with scuffed paint, but I was fearing far worse.

IMG_20180629_222108.jpg IMG_20180629_222250.jpg

Unfortunately, my buddy's forklift was too tall (or, rather, my garage opening was too short) for him to move the crate much past the door, and in the second picture you'll notice that it's 90 degrees off of what would be really convenient for attaching the slider. So, with some 2x4's as long levers and some creativity, I got it off the pallet, rotated 90 degrees, and far enough in that I could attach the slider and still close the garage. I then went in and ordered some leveling/retractable casters (that should be here Monday) to put on the thing so I can scoot it around a bit easier when needed.

I spent the rest of the day assembling the thing and-- besides the terrible (and generally useless) documentation---- overall I am impressed. It was like putting together a LEGO set with only a picture of the final product, but I love tinkering, so it wasn't too bad. I do have two small mystery pieces left that I'm going to email them about, but that's it. The machine itself: the metal is a heavier gauge, heck-- the machine is heavier than can be, everything lines up great, the machined surfaces look awesome, there's not a spot of rust (plenty of grease on everything) and only a minor scratch or two--- I really haven't found any issues yet. I even sat on the end of the 8.5' slider and my wife was able to push it with ease. I haven't run any wood through it, but everything seems to run smoothly and fairly quietly. I do need to pop off the 12" blade it came with (and it has a tiny scoring blade, nice!) to see if the arbor will let me fit my 10" blade collection (unlikely, but fingers crossed). Finally, I was able to attach my cast iron Bench Dog router table this evening, so that was pretty awesome too. I know I have a shaper, but I can't see that replacing every operation I want to do. One more thing to note, instead of giving me a bag of hardware, EVERY bolt was threaded into its hole. For example, there are six bolts used to attach a slider support-- the support was bubble wrapped and not attached, but the six bolts, lock washers, and washers were threaded into their final holes so you knew exactly where they went. That was super handy and convenient.

I'll get more pictures up probably next week. My shop looks horrendous with stuff scattered about, but once I put wheels on this thing and run it through its paces hopefully I'll sell off my jointer, planer, and table saw I'll get some proper pictures posted. We'll see what I think once I make some saw dust, but right now I am pretty stoked about my purchase.

[Mikail Khan]

Good to hear that things are going well.

MK

[Jim Becker]

'Glad things are moving along. One thing...if your garage has a sloped floor as so many do, you'll be best served by placing the machine either perpendicular or parallel to the slope using the slider wagon as the reference for direction. While an angled placement often is better for space utilization, a sloped floor and an angle position can present challenges with keeping things from bending/deforming, despite being made of stout metals.

[Matt Schrum]

'Glad things are moving along. One thing...if your garage has a sloped floor as so many do, you'll be best served by placing the machine either perpendicular or parallel to the slope using the slider wagon as the reference for direction....

Jim, thanks for the tip, I hadn't even thought of that. My garage is sloped, but fortunately the layout that works best at the moment is to have the wagon parallel with the slope.

[Rick Potter]

Just a thought, that works well for me. I picked up a pallet jack used for $60, used it for moving some large stuff around, and sold it when I was done.

I decided I really liked it and bought a narrow (21" wide) pallet jack to keep, and am slowly making pallet type risers under all my big machines. They are simple plywood on 4X4 rails, spaced to fit the jack. I don't need them so far, but adjustable feet could easily be used also.

This way I can eliminate several mobile bases I am not happy with. My tools are all raised up about 4". It's a good way to move heavy work benches also.

The pallet jack just slides under an assembly bench with only the handle part taking up space.