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Thread: Bridge City Tools, John Econamaki

  1. #1

    Bridge City Tools, John Econamaki

    I just received a 'blog' from John Econamaki, Bridge City Tools, Portland OR. announcing the sale of that firm to Harvey Industries, of China. In that announcement, John announced his pending retirement.

    The Bridge City line of tools has enjoyed a special place in my wood shop for several decades. I am forced to admit I only have a few of his tools. However each tool I posses is absolutely an excellent tool.

    I do wish John well in the next phase of his life. I trust Harvey Industries will uphold and continue the tradition of Bridge City Tools.

    Ira Matheny
    Modesto CA

  2. #2
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    I have a few of his tools and love them all but I am not sure if I will buy any more of them. I bought them in part because I liked John and his approach and the boutique nature of the product. I know Harvey has been supplying non-US countries with his tools for a couple of months now but haven't seen in comparative reviews. Even if the quality is the same and the price is lower it just won't be the same for me.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  3. #3
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    I likely have purchased my last bridge city tool. While it's possible the quality will be there I am skeptical. I bought my first square from John himself in the original space in the Portland shared warehouse.

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    Purportedly Harvey has been making many of the bridge city tools for several years.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post
    I likely have purchased my last bridge city tool. While it's possible the quality will be there I am skeptical. I bought my first square from John himself in the original space in the Portland shared warehouse.
    Your skepticism is clouded by your impression or experience of those cheap imports from China. Those cheapos are no good because the importers specify what the quality should be, not what the Chinese manufacturers can produce.

    John sets the benchmarks and Harvey will have zero issues to meet those. If you knew anything about the industrial machines Harvey has already been making, you would not cast doubts about the quality that the company could deliver. Frankly, China probably uses more CNC machines than any other countries in the world. You have to visit one of their electronics plants to be amazed by how far they are using modern tech to do their business.

    Simon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike King View Post
    Purportedly Harvey has been making many of the bridge city tools for several years.
    This information is freely available, no need for it to be "purportedly". Harvey has made BCT tools for the non-domestic market for a while. However, the only BCT tool that were made by Harvey and sold in the US was the Chopstick Master. I pointed this out in my post above.

    While I am still up in the air if I will ever buy any of the Harvey BCTs my mind is more open than when John first announced his retirement.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  7. #7
    "I did it because you would think I was an idiot if I turned down billions of dollars..."

    Billions? Really? I'm not saying BCTW isn't worth a lot, but multiple thousands of millions is still a lot of money even in 2018. I mean that's almost enough money to send a kid to a nice university and pay for their meals, too. Just hard for me to even believe. Millions would be believable. Hundreds of millions would be surprising. Billions I just don't believe. Why? Any time I look at their site, whatever I was vaguely interested in isn't even available. For instance I was looking at their honing guide a few months ago. Non-stock item. It's still a non-stock item, as is the set-up gauge, the kerf-maker, or many of their planes. Couldn't even find any smoothing planes. If I google I can find the discontinued product pages, but do they even make a smoothing plane right now? Even on ebay there's just shy of a dozen planes of any type for sale.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Dobbie View Post
    "I did it because you would think I was an idiot if I turned down billions of dollars..."

    Billions? Really? I'm not saying BCTW isn't worth a lot, but multiple thousands of millions is still a lot of money even in 2018. I mean that's almost enough money to send
    Where did you pull the quote from? John's website?

    If so, you missed his sense of humor. He has been like that all the time in his messages.

    Simon

  9. #9
    Yea it was the blog. That's the only entry I've ever read. So whoosh.jpg for me on that one. Now I'm curious what the actual amount was.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, John's words to a drivel starved nation are packed full of humor. I think "Consuelo" his assistant err boss is up to baby number 84, maybe 85 by now.

    John is a man that took his tools seriously but not himself.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Your skepticism is clouded by your impression or experience of those cheap imports from China. Those cheapos are no good because the importers specify what the quality should be, not what the Chinese manufacturers can produce.

    John sets the benchmarks and Harvey will have zero issues to meet those. If you knew anything about the industrial machines Harvey has already been making, you would not cast doubts about the quality that the company could deliver. Frankly, China probably uses more CNC machines than any other countries in the world. You have to visit one of their electronics plants to be amazed by how far they are using modern tech to do their business.

    Simon
    My experience with are Chinese companies and my comments are based on over 30 years in the tech industry and over 20 years of working closely with Chinese companies. Things are changing over the past 5 years and the following comments are more about before the past 5 years. Chinese companies mostly compete on price and most Chinese consumers shop only on price. I've had many many Chinese execs confirm the following supposition: If a Chinese consumer were shopping for new sandals and there were three options. 1) super cheap that will only last a few months, 2) slightly more expensive and would last a year, and 3) More expensive and will last many years. Nearly all Chinese would always pick the cheapest and make them last many years with duct tape. Also many execs have told me the normal practice in China is to build initial machines exactly to spec. As production continues they start to cut corners to reduce cost and if the end customer doesn't catch it the reduced quality then they Chinese manufacturer assumes the customer is ok. Machining to tight tolerances is way more expensive. Cutting corners on tolerances happens pretty quickly. Cutting corners on the grade of steel and cast iron is easy too. They tell me if you want consistent quality you must have your own onsite quality control inspectors who are from the home / headquarters and not hired locally. China can manufacture amazing quality but when they do it's not appreciably cheaper than anywhere else, especially for things made with CNC milling machines. They use the same machines and tooling as companies anywhere in the world and there is little labor in CNC produced products.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post
    Also many execs have told me the normal practice in China is to build initial machines exactly to spec. As production continues they start to cut corners to reduce cost and if the end customer doesn't catch it the reduced quality then they Chinese manufacturer assumes the customer is ok. Machining to tight tolerances is way more expensive. Cutting corners on tolerances happens pretty quickly. Cutting corners on the grade of steel and cast iron is easy too. They tell me if you want consistent quality you must have your own onsite quality control inspectors who are from the home / headquarters and not hired locally. China can manufacture amazing quality but when they do it's not appreciably cheaper than anywhere else, especially for things made with CNC milling machines. They use the same machines and tooling as companies anywhere in the world and there is little labor in CNC produced products.
    What you describe here is exactly correct, but also validates my assertion that they can produce goods at the quality that the importers demand. That does not mean of course if the importers don't do their homework (for example QC & QA, including posting QC inspectors locally -- which is pretty common these days), they will get what they want.

    But often the case is importers start with a spec. that leads to the lowest costs (or highest profits) as long as they see the quality part is acceptable to the consumers in North America. This the case with goods we find at Walmart, IKEA, or Dollar Tree, etc. We complain about the quality of those imported goods, but we are only willing to pay the bottom prices.

    In the case of BCT which was my original focus point, I doubt John -- at least for the first two years he is still with the company as a consultant or advisor (?) -- would accept the kind of "shortcuts" you have laid out from Harvey.

    Simon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post

    In the case of BCT which was my original focus point, I doubt John -- at least for the first two years he is still with the company as a consultant or advisor (?) -- would accept the kind of "shortcuts" you have laid out from Harvey.

    Simon
    The other issue that is different here is John won't be the importer it will be Jack Xu/Harvey industries so they will be building their own product. They also have offices in the US headed up by Mark Strahler. John thinks Jack has the right mindset, we know the company has the ability to produce items with the quality BCTW is know for, we shall see if Harvey continues to hold that level, if they don't they will lose the market. BCTW tools are based around novel designs for generally standard WWing tools along with high precision without both a premium price can't be charged.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  14. #14
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    We have no idea what the contract John has with Harvey specifies. It's normal in acquisitions of companies to require the CEO to stay for a period of time and the total price is contingent on the business hitting a set of financial metrics. Miss the metrics and CEO's share of the purchase price drops. The marketing message of having John be in charge of quality control is strong. How much control he really has is yet to be seen.

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