Router Table Part 2 - so, what if I went stand-alone...

[Rod Sheridan]

Dean, if you're going to do a lot of raised panel stuff or any quantity of work I'll go out on the ledge and recommend that you buy a small shaper.

I've always owned a shaper in a hobby shop and find it invaluable.

They're quieter, smoother, more powerful, and have much better fences. You can easily mount a power feeder on them, they have reverse rotation for tricky grain situations, and some have sliding tables and tilting spindles.

Some can accept router bits, I mainly use a 40mm Euroblock and steel knives, very economical and long lasting in solid wood only. I also have a carbide rebate head for rebates and pattern copying.

Have a look around and see what's available in the used market.
You might want to research it a bit, especially as you're considering the same amount of shop space............regards, Rod.

P.S. I've never seen a "my shaper table is sagging" thread, same can't be said for some router tables.

[Mike Wilkins]

Woodpeckers PRL Master Lift with a PC big boy router, Wonder Fence sitting on a Kreg stand with built-in doors and drawers with storage for the router table related stuff. That blue adds some nice color to the shop environment.

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Hey, Rod. Thank you for the suggestion. I have briefly looked at shapers, but I won't really be doing a lot of larger stuff. I may make a limited amount of raised panels if I make new shop cabinets, etc., but it will likely be a one-time use situation. I moved on pretty quickly from the shaper idea because of assumed cost of the cutter heads. I did not realize that some accepted router bits, but will have a look. Certainly like the idea of a "never-sagging" table .

Mike... thanks for the "Franken-Router" setup suggestion.... From the looking I've done, there are actually bits and pieces I like from various manufacturers that would be nice to be able to combine. Just not sure what fits with what. I am pretty much convinced that I will be going with a JessEm offering for my lift - whether that's a Mast-R-Lift II in someone else's top (if I decide I HAVE to go with cast Iron) or if I am going to go with a JessEm Mast-R-Lift Excel II. Curious if there was something that made you decide on a Woodpeckers PRL Lift vs. JessEm? Not saying that JessEm is the standard against which all other buying decisions are made, just wondering what your personal observations/preferences were. That Kreg blue would really stand out in my shop - might clash with the Makita Teal theme I've got going on...

I still find myself going back to the Incra LS. The only thing is that, to have the ideal fit out of the box (without some mods needed), I would have to go with the different table orientation. Knowing me, I would probably want to go with the version that gives me the most capacity, so that means a pretty big table which will eat up a bit more space. I'm really at the point where I have to try to anticipate what my projects/needs will be. Frankly, they will not likely be things that really require what the Incra LS... but it's just so dang irresistible - haha.

Wondering another thing.... How many of you bought/built your router table system thinking one thing, then ended up selling all or part of it to go another direction somewhere down the road? In your experience, how interchangeable are the various manufacturers' bits and pieces. For example - what if I like a JessEm stand and an Incra Table. What about a SawStop Cast Iron table but a JessEM TA router fence. I know most anything can be made to fit with various mods (e.g. homemade brackets, supports, etc.) but how interchangeable are things in a plug-and-play fashion?

Thanks again, everybody for your advice. I know some of you are screaming at me through your computer saying "Just buy something and start making sawdust, for goodness sake...!" Believe me, the voice in my head is starting to say the same thing .

Dean

[Robert Engel]

Dean, I think you're in the midst of "paralysis by analysis". Been there, done that. :-D

I agree with what glen said I think its fine if you have the funds, but tying up that much money in a router table - well you better be using it heavily, and frequently IMO.

I've built all my router tables (2 so far) and its so easy to do it, I wouldn't even consider buying a top, but that's me.

As far as lifts, IME they are not necessary and maybe even a waste of money for the average ww'er. OK if table is used a LOT in maybe a production environment to justify. My set up is a Kreg insert, and a Triton 3 HP router with built in above table height adjustment. It works so well I can't see the need for a $300+ lift. I've built a lot of raised panel doors on my table with no issues at all.

If you're going with a commercial product rather than DIY, I think any of the major brands will work (so long as you like the color LOL) but I would say a cast iron top is over kill. I've used homemade laminate tops for years and they work just fine, and I would expect a phenolic top to be just fine.

One big consideration is mobility. I would say that is mandatory for any router table.

[John Patric]

Dean,

I have the Kreg, it can be fitted with a micro adjuster, which works. The pics show my table with the cabinets I built. BTW the table stands next to the Makita SCM saw and sometimes I bump into it

.Kreg Router 1.jpgKreg Router 2.jpg

[John Patric]

As far as lifts, IME they are not necessary and maybe even a waste of money for the average ww'er.

Agree, I don't have a lift and have never thought that it would be worth the extra space it takes up as well as the cost.

[Dean Moldenhauer]

John, Nice job on the cabinet - looks great. Would be interested in seeing what's behind the big door, I assume some sort of dust collection arrangement?

Thanks,

Dean

[Rod Sheridan]

Hey, Rod. Thank you for the suggestion. I have briefly looked at shapers, but I won't really be doing a lot of larger stuff. I may make a limited amount of raised panels if I make new shop cabinets, etc., but it will likely be a one-time use situation. I moved on pretty quickly from the shaper idea because of assumed cost of the cutter heads. I did not realize that some accepted router bits, but will have a look. Certainly like the idea of a "never-sagging" table .

Dean

Hi Dean, most of my work on the shaper is performed with a Euroblock cutter, knives are approximately $20 per pair, same for the limiters if you use the safer MAN rated heads.

I don't know if I can buy a good router bit for that kind of money?

Regards, Rod.

[Ron Hampe]

Hartville Hardware (Ohio) brings in all the vendors twice a year and they gave me a good deal on a Woodpecker table complete with stand and lift. It's a good table, but I don't like the casters and wish I could have adjusted the height of the table without having to cut the legs. I also added an emergency stop paddle switch that I think should be standard on all of these.

[John Patric]

Would be interested in seeing what's behind the big door, I assume some sort of dust collection arrangement?

Dean, the dust collection arrangement is a 4" dust port that connects with the fence dust port to the DC.

Kreg Router 3.jpg

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Hey, all. Thanks again for all of the input, advice, pictures, experience, etc. I have settled on and placed an order for the JessEm Ultimate Router Table Complete System from WoodCraft. This system is built around the Mast-R-Lift Excel II lift system and phenolic top. It utilizes their Premium TA Router Table Fence and will also include the Pow-R-Tek router motor with remote switch and speed control. It sits on JessEm's ALTS aluminum stand that includes the caster set. I have also ordered the Clear Cut Stock Guides and the Digital Readout for that Excel II setup.

In the end, I needed to get something in the shop and this looked like a good comprehensive system that balanced a lot of my anticipated needs. As I get more experience with use of a router table, I will see if there are any changes I want to make and how I will go about doing that. As I probably mentioned, my first preference would have been to go with a cast iron top, but it wasn't a deal breaker. As it turns out, there were just too many questions about compatibility between the limited choices in cast iron router table tops and stands, fences, etc. I'm confident that the phenolic should serve me well but, if not, I will start "Router Table - Part 3" thread and go back to the drawing board . I was (am) also intrigued by the Incra LS fence system. I would love to have that setup at some point, but I will have to see if the system I'm getting really leaves me wanting. If so, it will likely mean a whole system change as the table orientation would be different and unique to Incra (I think). It would also mean going with an MDF top, which I was trying to avoid - maybe unreasonably so, but that's where I was at. I think I want to start my learning curve with something a little more basic, albeit capable, and then move on/up if I feel the need. It will also mean even more real estate in the shop which I will have to make sure does not present an issue.

Also, I am maybe taking a bit of a chance on the Pow-R-Tek setup. It's a bit of an unknown, but it's not the end of the world if it turns out to be a bust. The outboard power and speed control will be nice if it all works well. If not, I will just learn my lesson and move back to plan "A" of the Porter Cable or DeWalt router motor and a remote power switch with no outboard speed control. Probably a $400 lesson learned worst case since either of those routers will fit right up with the Mast-R-Lift Excel system.

The ALTS aluminum table looks like it will take pretty well to having storage cabinets built into/around it and the mobility system for it looks pretty good. Certainly, it will be good enough for me for some time until I decide I need to build something more elaborate.

I will look forward to using it on my current project and will dream up some others to evaluate it - albeit with my relatively limited skills. I will try to remember to come back and post some impressions since I was not able to find a ton of info on this system. It's a bit of a leap of faith based on some limited reviews and mostly JessEm's reputation of putting out quality tools that serve our hobby/profession well.

Thanks again,

Dean

[Nick Decker]

Sounds like a great system, Dean. I've been happy with everything Jessem that I have, and imagine their table/fence combo is no exception. Their customer service seems a bit "laid back", but that's another (harmless) story.

Thanks for being the Guinea pig on the router.

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Yeah... I did have a question that I e-mailed to them a couple of days ago that has, to date, remained unanswered. I actually figured out the answer myself (I think, and it wasn't critical so, no big deal. To be honest, if it was a different company that did not have the track record of quality that JessEm has, that may have been more of a turn-off. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's something they ought to work on, but if they are making a choice between faster customer service and engineering a product that needs less of that service, I guess I'll take the latter. Others that have had issues or more critical questions about their product will likely disagree...

From the little bit I could find out about the Pow-R-Tek, I'm not too scared. I probably sounded a little more like Eeyore than I intended ("It'll never worrrk") . I think their routers have been fairly sound, it was their speed control that had issues a few years back and had to be redesigned. Haven't really read much more, but I guess that's where the Guinea Pig comes in. I'll just take one for the team if need be. If it works out well, I think having that outboard speed control will be nice. Now, watch... I'll never have to change speeds...

Thanks for the reply, Nick.

Dean

[Nick Decker]

Yeah, internal speed controls seem to be the culprit a lot of the time. It shouldn't be that hard to build a basic router, just a motor with some kind of chuck on it.

My customer service hiccup had to do with them not knowing the status of an order I placed. First they told me the item was backordered, after telling me that it was in stock. I asked them to cancel the order, they said OK. Then they called back and said it couldn't be cancelled because it was already shipped. I've also had a couple of emails go unanswered. I think they're either disorganized or there's a bar next door. Or both.

[Dean Moldenhauer]

heh... yeah, a bar next door can lead to disorganization which can lead to visiting the bar next door... it's a vicious cycle .

So, are you saying that internal speed controls can be the culprit, as in they are the culprit on routers like the PC7518 where they are built into the router? That makes sense, I just wanted to make sure I understand. I know there are routers (like the PC7519) that are single speed. Would be nice if they could be used with these external speed controls, but I think the soft start messes that arrangement up - which makes me wonder... Obviously, the Pow-R-Tek is not variable speed via a dial on the router itself, which makes it compatible with the external speed control; however, that must also mean that the Pow-R-Tek also does NOT have soft-start. My understanding is that a router used with external speed control cannot have internal soft-start feature. Does this mean I should always start the router at lowest speed on the external speed control and ramp it up as needed? Is that ramp-up better for the router (and my electrical system due to inrush)...?


FYI - the little bit of info about the Pow-R-Tek Router/Speed Control unit that I got indicated that the external speed controller was a POS and that they pulled it from the market, revamped it and the new offering is "new and improved". We'll see.

Just when I thought I had all my questions answered...haha.

Dean