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Thread: What's your finishing schedule with Target 6000?

  1. #1
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    What's your finishing schedule with Target 6000?

    Curious what you all are doing before the Target 6000. Do you use their universal sanding sealer as well?
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  2. #2
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    I don't use "sanding sealers". If I'm not coloring and/or oiling the wood, I just spray the EM6000; generally, three coats. If I dye and/or oil, I spray on a barrier coat of de-waxed shellac before spraying the EM6000. In all cases, I'll lightly abrade with 320 or 400 wet-n-dry after the first coat to insure there's no "nubbie action" from grain raise before spraying the remaining coats.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I don't use "sanding sealers". If I'm not coloring and/or oiling the wood, I just spray the EM6000; generally, three coats. If I dye and/or oil, I spray on a barrier coat of de-waxed shellac before spraying the EM6000. In all cases, I'll lightly abrade with 320 or 400 wet-n-dry after the first coat to insure there's no "nubbie action" from grain raise before spraying the remaining coats.

    Good to know Jim - thanks! I ordered some 6000 which I've used. I also got some of the universal sanding sealer to try, and I got some of the water based/hybrid shellac product. Hey, I'm used to nitro lacquer and I've got a question. When I spray nitro lacquer, if some dust gets in the finish as it dries, the nitro lacquer seems softer than the 6000 once dry(next day). For nitro lacquer, I could just 400g the dust imperfections, then 0000 steel wool, then wipe with felt and I was back to my original sheen. Target 6000 doesn't seem to behave like this. I can't figure out how to easily "fix" a less than perfect sprayout. What do you do? I hate to have to sand with 400 and shoot another coat, hoping that coat doesn't have flaws - it's a vicious cycle.
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  4. #4
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    I never liked the water borne shellac product and only bought it once.

    I don't have any issue knocking off dust nibs with 320 or 400 that might appear on coats prior to the final. I've never sprayed solvent based lacquers (no way to safely do that) so I can't honestly compare the two. Perhaps others can provide some additional guidance.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post

    I don't have any issue knocking off dust nibs with 320 or 400 that might appear on coats prior to the final.
    Jim, I'm referring to a final coat. Once you knock off the nibs, you've got a finish that is not uniform(at least I do). Of course, the 400g leaves a duller area where you've removed the imperfection. What technique/products do you use to get the panel back to a uniform sheen? I don't have a spray booth, so it's a crap-shoot on my final coats. Sometimes they're perfect, sometimes not. That's one of the nice things about solvent lacquer is that it dries REALLY fast. I am, however committed to waterborne finishes now. I made the decision to switch(mainly for the health benefits) and I intend to stick by.

    I miss the ease of being able to quickly rub nitro lacquer to a beautiful luster. I'm sure there's a way with these waterborne coatings, I just don't know of it.
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  6. #6
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    Mike, I have never rubbed out a WB finish, or at least I can't remember ever doing it. I use a lot of GF products, but other WB products, too. I often use Sealcoat shellac as a sealer, both over dye or stain as well as alone because it greatly reduces grain raising that can happen with some WB finishes. So, a light coat of Sealcoat, then I scuff sand with 320 grit if it was just a sealer but not if I used it as a sealer over dye or stain because I don't want to risk cutting through to bare wood. OK, then I spray a coat of topcoat and scuff sand with 320 or 400 grit, sometimes even 600 grit, after it's dry. I'm just trying to take off any dust nibs, not trying to level anything. If I have to do that this late in the game then I didn't do a very good job upstream. Usually, one coat of Sealcoat and two coats of topcoat are enough to get a smooth finish with consistent sheen, but depending upon the wood and the finish sometimes it takes 3 finish coats. In any case, I always scuff sand between coats. And I never do anything to the final coat. How it comes off the gun is how it's going to be. I have not had much problem with dust nibs in the final coat. I spray in a temporary spray booth with good exhaust, but it's not a sealed room with filtered makeup air.

    What I'm really saying is you have to spray in a space where dust isn't floating around or getting drawn in while the finish is drying. It sometimes takes 20 or 30 minutes for a wet coat of WB topcoat to set up. It's not like NC lacquer. Maybe you need to rethink your spray area set up.

    John

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    And I never do anything to the final coat. How it comes off the gun is how it's going to be. I have not had much problem with dust nibs in the final coat. I spray in a temporary spray booth with good exhaust, but it's not a sealed room with filtered makeup air.

    What I'm really saying is you have to spray in a space where dust isn't floating around or getting drawn in while the finish is drying. It sometimes takes 20 or 30 minutes for a wet coat of WB topcoat to set up. It's not like NC lacquer. Maybe you need to rethink your spray area set up.

    John
    Damn. just damn. OK, this makes sense. I've just got to always spray outside. I hope one day I can scale my business up and get a bigger shop with a real spray booth - that would be a game changer. Actually, using WB finishes which can be sprayed in high humidity is already a game changer.
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  8. #8
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    Mike, I spray in a temporary spray booth in my humble shop. It's just 6 mil poly hung from the floor joists, Kraft paper on the floor, my DC fan to exhaust the overspray out a near by window, and another window across the shop open to provide make up air. It can't get much simpler. Spraying outside is never a good idea, but if you must at least set up some sort of enclosure so keep the dust and bugs out. Maybe a cheap family sized camping tent. But I'd be looking to work indoors if at all possible. My "booth" takes all of 5 minutes to set up/take down. Surely you have an area of 8 x 10' you can clear out in which to set up a temporary booth. Then you will be able to spray w/o worry about stuff getting into the finish before it flashes off and you also will be able to spray year round.

    John

  9. #9
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    I don't generally have issues with the final coat of finish not flowing out and obliterating anything that came before it including where nibs were abraded off. EM600, in particular, has some level of "burn in" similar to the solvent based lacquer you're familiar with, too. As has been mentioned, if you're getting trash on the final coat, that's an environmental issue.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Mike, I spray in a temporary spray booth in my humble shop. It's just 6 mil poly hung from the floor joists, Kraft paper on the floor, my DC fan to exhaust the overspray out a near by window, and another window across the shop open to provide make up air. It can't get much simpler. Spraying outside is never a good idea, but if you must at least set up some sort of enclosure so keep the dust and bugs out. Maybe a cheap family sized camping tent. But I'd be looking to work indoors if at all possible. My "booth" takes all of 5 minutes to set up/take down. Surely you have an area of 8 x 10' you can clear out in which to set up a temporary booth. Then you will be able to spray w/o worry about stuff getting into the finish before it flashes off and you also will be able to spray year round.

    John
    Thanks for the description John. I guess you vacuum the whole shop really good the day before? How do you prevent sawdust from entering on your shoes? I like the tent idea. I really, really like that. Feel like taking a picture of your booth next time you're spraying?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Dowell View Post
    Thanks for the description John. I guess you vacuum the whole shop really good the day before? How do you prevent sawdust from entering on your shoes? I like the tent idea. I really, really like that. Feel like taking a picture of your booth next time you're spraying?
    Mike, I posted some pictures and dialogue about it a few months ago; take a look at this link: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ry+spray+booth

    I don't go nuts about cleanup. I vacuum up right before I set up the spray booth; no great prep. work needed. Sawdust on my shoes doesn't matter. The key is to be reasonably clean overall, clean room clean from the waist up, to have clean make up air, and not to have so much exhaust that it pulls dust onto your just sprayed work. I achieve those things by making sure I have on clean cloths, having my make up air come in a window 25 feet away, so anything heavy enough to make a dust nib falls out of the air before it gets to the work, and having only about 1200 CFM exhaust. If my make up air inlet was really close to my booth I would install filters to clean that air. With only 1200 CFM of exhaust it gets rid of any overspray but doesn't create a noticeable breeze that would pull dust onto my nice, freshly sprayed work.

    Think about your own situation. I'll bet you can come up with something that works just as well w/o great effort or expense.

    John

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