U.S. to collect 25% tariffs on Chinese woodworking equipment starting July 6

[jim mills]

I've seen threads shut down for far less political banter. Where are the moderators? I say this topic has run it's course, and is of little to no value anymore. I doubt I'm the only one having difficulty refraining. Let's all head to our social media echo chambers, where we can voice our real opinions, and reserve this site for woodworking.

[Edwin Santos]

I've seen threads shut down for far less political banter. Where are the moderators? I say this topic has run it's course, and is of little to no value anymore. I doubt I'm the only one having difficulty refraining. Let's all head to our social media echo chambers, where we can voice our real opinions, and reserve this site for woodworking.

Jim, I don't see anything acrimonious in this discussion or any personal attacks. Plus it has stayed on the impact of the tariffs on woodworking machinery . If this particular thread is of little to no value to you, why don't you just ignore it or block it?
At least a few people have indicated they find it interesting. I disagree with some of the opinions expressed, but others have been enlightening or thought provoking.
regards, Edwin

[Joe Jensen]

Here is an interesting chart comparing US tariffs to the European Union and China.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resiz...JQA5MB2PBY.png

[Sean Nagle]

I could have been more than willing to pay for a "Made in USA" or "Made in Canada" SawStop.

The absence of 100% American-made woodworking machinery has been going on for a very long time. It didn't occur over night. I "tooled up" in the mid-90's and even then it was rare to find any American-made woodworking machinery that was not "industrial" in size, availability and price. Most everything was made in Taiwan or was some American-Taiwanese hybrid with a bunch of U.S. flag stickers to make to feel good about your purchase.

[Jim Becker]

I've seen threads shut down for far less political banter. Where are the moderators?

This thread is being very carefully monitored by the moderation and administration team. The same is true in the Sales Tax topic in OT. So far, the discussion has been mostly on focus and the goal is to keep it that way because it's very much relevant to power tool buyers and manufacturers/vendors. Only a few posts have had to be deleted when they moved from the subject of tariffs into pointed political reference. This community welcomes good discussion and the "no politics/no religion rules" are to prevent activities from being specifically about those things. Discussing a public policy or event that specifically affects woodworking and related clearly can happen when folks are thoughtful and courteous. If you feel differently, then please contact Keith Outten accordingly.

Jim
Forum Moderator

[jim mills]

I'm really crossing my fingers that the President of the United States doesn't make huge policy changes because his feelings are hurt or because another country played emotional politics. I'm still not sure what the US vision is. At first, we heard rumblings of IP issues and thought maybe the tariffs were directed towards solving those (even though many experts thought there were better ways to go after IP issues). Now we have world leaders hating the US and digging in their heels. Where ever this 'US will win no matter what the outcome' thinking is coming from is alluding me. Give me some of that punch.

I'd say this falls outside of the realm of woodworking.

[Van Huskey]

I'd say this falls outside of the realm of woodworking.

Jim addressed it directly and pointed out that there is a higher power if you care to appeal. In the end just don't open the thread. I for one think a 25% price increase in a significant number of machines people buy and use here is certainly germane. There is a difference between discussing a politically based issue and discussing politics, though it is a razor's edge and the reason the moderators all over it.

[Carlos Alvarez]

The total impact on the tool price isn't 25%. It's 25% of the COST of the steel itself, before machining or any other work. I have no idea how much that is, but it's certainly got to be a heck of a lot less than even just the cost of a machined part made from that metal. Has anyone figured out the net impact of this on most tools? Probably not huge.

We already had a jump in tool prices some years ago. Luckily, I had mostly outfitted my shop in the years prior to that and saw my used tools being worth more than the purchase price.

[Van Huskey]

But that said, the total impact on the tool price isn't 25%. It's 25% of the COST of the steel itself, before machining or any other work.

Unfortunately, that is not the case. It is a 25% tariff on whole machines landed in the US from China, google the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the US, I posted the relevant HTSUS sections previously in this or the Grizzly thread.

[Simon MacGowen]

The total impact on the tool price isn't 25%. It's 25% of the COST of the steel itself, before machining or any other work. I have no idea how much that is, but it's certainly got to be a heck of a lot less than even just the cost of a machined part made from that metal. Has anyone figured out the net impact of this on most tools? Probably not huge.

We already had a jump in tool prices some years ago. Luckily, I had mostly outfitted my shop in the years prior to that and saw my used tools being worth more than the purchase price.

Not sure about the exact impact in terms of dollar terms. But the Mid-Continent Nail plant in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, the nation's largest nail manufacturer, is reported today in the news to be on the brink of extinction, pondering a move of its operation to Mexico, unless an exemption is given. More than 10% of its people have already been laid off.

Some 21,000 US companies have filed for exemptions and that speaks volume about the impacts of trade wars on the various businesses. If a full-blown war erupts globally, few (countries or consumers) would escape unhurt.

Like you, my shop does not need any more machines, even it does, any new machines will not be from China anyway. But as a hobbyist woodworker, I will be more concerned about lumber if the trade wars spread over to other areas like forestry.

Simon

[Carlos Alvarez]

Unfortunately, that is not the case. It is a 25% tariff on whole machines landed in the US from China, google the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the US, I posted the relevant HTSUS sections previously in this or the Grizzly thread.

Ah, ok, I had seen a thread elsewhere on the steel tariffs and confused the two. I thought it was on the raw materials themselves. Do you have any feel for how much the actual machine cost this applies to is versus the retail price? Meaning a $1k machine at Woodcraft has a tariff of....?? I simply have no idea what percent markup there is from landed cost by the time I buy it.

[Jim Becker]

Ah, ok, I had seen a thread elsewhere on the steel tariffs and confused the two. I thought it was on the raw materials themselves. Do you have any feel for how much the actual machine cost this applies to is versus the retail price? Meaning a $1k machine at Woodcraft has a tariff of....?? I simply have no idea what percent markup there is from landed cost by the time I buy it.

Shiraz from Grizzly posted that it's going to affect the tools directly by 25%...including on backorders because as a manufacturer, they cannot avoid the tariff nor than they absorb it. In his company's case, if it's not physically States-side on the date the tariff commences, the up-charge applies for all sales of the affected tools. I would imagine other companies will handle things similarly, given the 25% number.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Shiraz from Grizzly posted that it's going to affect the tools directly by 25%...including on backorders because as a manufacturer, they cannot avoid the tariff nor than they absorb it. In his company's case, if it's not physically States-side on the date the tariff commences, the up-charge applies for all sales of the affected tools. I would imagine other companies will handle things similarly, given the 25% number.

25% of RETAIL price? That seems impossible. What if it goes on sale? How is the retailer going to report their selling price? Or are you saying it's on the MSRP? I believe tariffs normally apply to cost as delivered.

[Dave Zellers]

25% of RETAIL price? That seems impossible. What if it goes on sale? How is the retailer going to report their selling price? Or are you saying it's on the MSRP? I believe tariffs normally apply to cost as delivered.

All we know is Shiraz said on July 6 Grizzley's prices on woodworking machines made in China will see a 25% increase. Machines made in Taiwan will not.

[Van Huskey]

25% of RETAIL price? That seems impossible. What if it goes on sale? How is the retailer going to report their selling price? Or are you saying it's on the MSRP? I believe tariffs normally apply to cost as delivered.

The tariff will come during the customs process and be assessed based on the "wholesale" value. Now when the importer adds a full 25% to the retail price it does reflect and increase of profit per item (very simplified) but they may be doing it for several reasons, one to help offset loss of sales (which may have the opposite impact) or mobilizing their customers to call their elected leaders and cry.

What we do know is Grizzly is going up 25% on Chinese machines, period. We do not know how the others will react, they may be able to ride it out longer due to in-country inventory, they may try to hold prices for a time to develop goodwill, they may also choose to increase price to a lesser extent. All have merit and potential downfalls.

With this and the sales tax issues (which magnifies the tariff for online sales in most states) someone could go to buy a Chinese made woodworking machine 3 months from now and see the price 35% plus higher than buying from an out of state online dealer today. (I know about use tax but 98% don't pay it)