U.S. to collect 25% tariffs on Chinese woodworking equipment starting July 6

[Carlos Alvarez]

All we know is Shiraz said on July 6 Grizzley's prices on woodworking machines made in China will see a 25% increase. Machines made in Taiwan will not.

I have had no luck finding a definitive answer on WHAT the 25% applies to, but it makes zero sense to apply it to retail price. If I import something to then re-sell, there might not even be a retail price yet.

But I found tidbits that say it's really on some kind of base cost:

From AP:

A 45 percent tariff on Chinese-made goods could drive up U.S. retail prices on those goods by an average of about 10 percent, Capital Economics has calculated. Consumers would find it hard to escape the price squeeze.

[Sean Nagle]

I have had no luck finding a definitive answer on WHAT the 25% applies to, but it makes zero sense to apply it to retail price. If I import something to then re-sell, there might not even be a retail price yet.

But I found tidbits that say it's really on some kind of base cost:

From AP:

If you read through the thread started by Shiraz, he explains that there have been material price increases (steel and aluminum) affecting both the Chinese and Taiwanese tools. It was implied that the 25% covered both the tariff and increased manufactured pricing.

[Van Huskey]

I have had no luck finding a definitive answer on WHAT the 25% applies to,

By what do you mean which machines? If so I read, pulled out the relevant sections and posted them in this or the Grizzly thread, as a whole it covers every tool for woodworking. If you mean what value the tariff is applied to it is the value of the machine in wholesale terms when it reaches the US port. Again how the importer prices the goods after that, whether they use their old formula or simply add 25% is unknown save for Grizzly who has said it is 25% across the board, but even that could be a mental ploy, "we said 25% but we decided on 15% to be nice, don't ya love us even more now?".

[Carlos Alvarez]

By what do you mean which machines?

No, I was talking about what number it applied to, because people are making it sound like it's a 25% retail increase. Which becomes 27-ish% when you include sales tax.

[Van Huskey]

No, I was talking about what number it applied to, because people are making it sound like it's a 25% retail increase. Which becomes 27-ish% when you include sales tax.

People are saying that since the only importer that has chimed it said exactly that, Chinese Grizzly machines will go up 25% (of the previous retail price) on July 6th. This is the only one we know about, what the rest do is up to them. In the end it makes no difference to the customer what value the tariff hits, it only matters what it does to the price. Though it doesn't mean we don't want to know for various reasons.

Edit: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....es-going-up-25

[Jim Becker]

Since he has a bias and financial interest, I wouldn't bother listening to him.

There is no bias...his machines have a stated and confirmed price increase on the date. My suggestion was that other firms may very well do the same.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Saying that it doesn't matter what the tariff is on is like saying that companies can set any retail price they want and remain in business. The reality is that the tariffs' effect on the final price will be measured by the same competitive pressures as all other costs. It's not a magical thing that will let everyone spike their profits. They will just be another pricing factor.

[Phillip Gregory]

In light of all this, the vintage tool aficionados may get the last laugh. Good old fashioned American iron made in simpler times and built to last!

That's a little ironic considering that many of the tools in question are clones or near-clones of American (mainly Delta) tools from the 1940s-1970s. Grizzly as well as many others sell clones or near-clones of the Unisaw, 12/14 saw, RC33 planer, DJ15/DJ20 parallelogram jointers, 14" cast iron band saw, 20" steel framed band saw, 6x108" edge sander, the LD and HD shapers, as well as the Max spindle sander. Grizzly sells a different 20" disc sander than the other importers, but Jet/Powermatic still sell the old Max round pedestal design. Many of the parts even interchange between the currently-produced Asian machines and the older American ones.

There is no bias...his machines have a stated and confirmed price increase on the date. My suggestion was that other firms may very well do the same.

I wonder how much in sales he'll lose because due to supply and demand curves, as price goes up, he'll sell fewer machines. Hopefully they won't close another location like they closed down the PA showroom, as I'd bet the location they'd close would not be the Bellingham, WA location that contains their headquarters.

[Dave Zellers]

Since he has a bias and financial interest, I wouldn't bother listening to him.

I think that's unfair since he took the time to start a new thread clearly stating what his company would be doing. If his costs are going up 25%, then it is going to get passed on to the consumer. If another company wants to eat a small amount of the increase to gain a price advantage, that is simply a free market at work. Since everyone here is simply speculating and asking questions, it seems to me information from the horses mouth has real value. Either way, we will know in 10 days.

I agree with those who say it's highly unlikely anybody will tool up anytime soon in the USA but existing manufacturers in Taiwan might already be tooling up to gain an advantage over Chinese made equipment.

[Van Huskey]

Saying that it doesn't matter what the tariff is on is like saying that companies can set any retail price they want and remain in business. The reality is that the tariffs' effect on the final price will be measured by the same competitive pressures as all other costs. It's not a magical thing that will let everyone spike their profits. They will just be another pricing factor.

What the tariff is on, or even how much the tariff is set at means basically zero to the consumer. The consumer will be mainly price sensitive to two identical widgets. The point is from a consumer standpoint the final price to them is the key and we know one importer is going up 25% on the retail price due in their words to the tariff and increased raw material costs.

[Matt Mattingley]

Just for fun. I am Canadian and American-based. I manufacture products on both sides of the borders. I also import products from other countries as part of my manufacturing.

If I manufacture it in the USA there is no tariffs if I’m using American goods. I just got a 25% raise. Period, period.
If I manufacture goods in the USA with tariff countries involved... I just got a 25% raise on everything. Period.
If I manufacture goods in Canada, with tariff involved, I raise my price about 13 to 14% for American buyers. If they want a high-speed spindle custom-made, cylindrically ground to custom specs...

I think the tarriffs are great for guys just like me. But no good for anyone else.

I pretty much just got a 10% to 20% raise. But… Where the rest of the money is going… your guess will be as good as mine! I haven’t had a raise in 20 years! This is a fun breath of fresh air for me!

Forget about me making an extra5,000- $10,000 year. What is happening with the 20billion.......

The industrial ironworker union(IWU), UAW, CAW don’t like seeing this. Why is it happening?

[Rod Sheridan]

Some 21,000 US companies have filed for exemptions and that speaks volume about the impacts of trade wars on the various businesses. If a full-blown war erupts globally, few (countries or consumers) would escape unhurt.

Like you, my shop does not need any more machines, even it does, any new machines will not be from China anyway. But as a hobbyist woodworker, I will be more concerned about lumber if the trade wars spread over to other areas like forestry.

Simon

Simon, yes it's a lot of companies, I imagine it would take a long time to process all those applications. Hopefully those affected can wait that long.

Fortunately for Americans it's only softwood lumber that has a tariff. I was really surprised to read that it increases the price of a house by 8 or 9 thousand dollars. Once I thought about it, it made sense. Not everyone is like me and only buys 3 pieces of 2 X 4

Regards, Rod.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Where are all the people here that always said BUY AMERICAN?

In this world economy, as it has become, the term, "Buy American" doesn't really mean much anymore. There are products that are wholly made in the US and the profits go overseas. ..But the whole idea of "buy American" is to preserve American jobs, right ? What difference does it make where the profits go ? What about products that are made partly in the US ? Those are American jobs, too, right ?

The thing is, the US economy, and US jobs, are more dependent on a healthy world economy, as is the health of economies across the globe, than any provincial initiative. Unfortunately, the detrimental tariffs and consequent trade wars are harmful to the health of the world economy and will, in turn, hurt the US economy and US jobs, as well as those of all other Countries' economies. Consumers in other countries can't buy American goods if they're out of work.

[Rich Enders]

Custom turned and ground steel shafts can be made in almost any country in the world. Our (US) supplier quoted $9700, and six to eight weeks lead time to shipment with US$ 650 truck freight (they quoted the same 6 to 8 weeks on our prior order and delivered in 20 weeks). We also had our Chinese supplier quote the same specification using the same international quality steel. They quoted US$ 2350 delivered duty paid with 2 weeks lead time (they work 24/7). So who did we place the order with and why? We placed the order with our Chinese supplier............because of the lead time! And the shafts shipped on schedule, and are working perfectly.

So what does story have to do with this thread? I don't believe tariffs are going to have the least effect on China. If we have an IP problem sit down at the WTO and settle it. If we have a trade imbalance, work to improve US industry. Please, no more tariffs. Rich

[Carlos Alvarez]

Custom turned and ground steel shafts can be made in almost any country in the world. Our (US) supplier quoted $9700, and six to eight weeks lead time to shipment with US$ 650 truck freight (they quoted the same 6 to 8 weeks on our prior order and delivered in 20 weeks). We also had our Chinese supplier quote the same specification using the same international quality steel. They quoted US$ 2350 delivered duty paid with 2 weeks lead time (they work 24/7). So who did we place the order with and why? We placed the order with our Chinese supplier............because of the lead time! And the shafts shipped on schedule, and are working perfectly.

So what does story have to do with this thread? I don't believe tariffs are going to have the least effect on China. If we have an IP problem sit down at the WTO and settle it. If we have a trade imbalance, work to improve US industry. Please, no more tariffs. Rich

Do you know for sure that the steel quality is identical? I keep hearing rumors that Chinese steel is mostly polluted and impure. Sounds like BS to push the anti-China agenda, but don't know.