Let’s talk three phase...?

[Warren Lake]

Mark Ill get you a transformer for christmas, rather you stay here though.

[Mark Hennebury]

Mark Ill get you a transformer for christmas, rather you stay here though.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ree-phase&goto

thanks Warren, I will stick around for a while. I have 240/480/600 so i am good.

[Brian Holcombe]

I wouldn’t necessarily order a new machine in three phase, but once I did a bit of research and spoke to people such as Mark Hennebury (thanks Mark!), I found that three phase conversion was pretty easy to do and opened up a broader range of equipment choices.

One thing, however, had I prepared a little sooner I could have gone for a three phase jointer/planer in the same model FS41 Elite S which features a motor to raise and lower the table with a DRO. So there are some options manufacturers provide to three phase machines that they do not otherwise provide.

[Alex Zeller]

It's too bad that getting 3 phase power ran to a house is so expensive. I'm always watching industrial equipment auctions. Older equipment seams to go real cheap. If I had my way I would be buying a lot more than I do. I would be in worse shape if I didn't live in the north east. I'm far enough away from a lot of what I really want to allow me to think twice.

[James Zhu]

It's too bad that getting 3 phase power ran to a house is so expensive. I'm always watching industrial equipment auctions. Older equipment seams to go real cheap. If I had my way I would be buying a lot more than I do. I would be in worse shape if I didn't live in the north east. I'm far enough away from a lot of what I really want to allow me to think twice.

It is very easy to get 3 phase power from single phase. You can use either a rotary phase converter or digital phase converter (Phase Perfect).

[Phillip Gregory]

I agree that often as not - "normal" residential electricians never see a need to install 3 phase power into dwellings.... 99% of people would never use it for anything....

Often as not - you can get 3 phase 208 in many residential and light commercial areas. That's simply 3 phase where each leg is regular 120v... 220 is similar - except that it is 2 phase with 120 on each leg....

if you can get 208 3 phase easily enough - all you need is an appropriate step up transformer and off you go... These can be bought used cheap...

I personally would not buy equipment that requires anything higher than 480 3 phase... Above that - you start pushing up into "Medium voltage" stuff and electricity behaves differently. You have to be VERY careful about wire terminations as well as keeping breakers properly maintained. This is the realm of paying electricians - not doing it yourself.. You can kill yourself in a hurry...

Even then - you will likely have to find an electician who has the correct credentials/qualifications/training and equipment to work on a system above 480v... Most simply do not.....

120/208Y service is typically seen in "residential" settings only in heavily built-up areas, such as a large apartment building. You do not generally see it in freestanding dwellings as each of those typically has its own transformer which is essentially always 120/240 split-phase. My house is about 4 miles away from the nearest utility 3 phase pole, they simply ran one phase up my road and that's all there is. That has been the case pretty much everywhere I have lived, and in one case there wasn't a 3 phase pole for about 15 miles. Most power companies will not run 3 phase to a dwelling. In some cases you can get them to run it to a shop building, *if* you are close to a 3 phase utility pole, *if* they wish to provide you with it, and *if* you are willing to pay a lot of money both initially and on an ongoing basis for the service. Most smaller shops that can get 3 phase service get 240 center-tapped delta so they can run 240 volt 3 phase loads, 240 volt single phase loads, and 120 volt single phase loads. 120/208 is typically seen in commercial establishments as most loads are 120 volts except for outdoor lighting and HVAC being 208 3-phase. Large apartment buildings may have 120208, typically stepped down from 277/480 from the POCO as they use 480 for elevators, fire control, and HVAC and have their own onsite transformers to step down to 120/208 for use by the individual units (208 single phase being used by stoves and dryers, 120 volts for all else.)

Most of Canada as well as some sporadic places in the Northeast and Southeast use 600 volt (aka 550 or 575 volt) 3 phase. It's treated exactly like 480 3 phase is. Medium voltage does not start until 1000 volts and yes, the rules for that are vastly different than for <1000 volts.

[Martin Wasner]

As long as you have the amperage. Any little motor you're going to get in single phase and be able to run out of a residential panel, just put a vfd on it and move on.

Tough to find small to medium, (10-50hp), sized motors in single phase though. Heck, you have to sell an organ just to pay for the wire for a 200 amp, 208v circuit for 50hp.

[Darcy Warner]

May have to sell two if you have to buy a new breaker and fused disconnect. Lol

[Tom Trees]

Thought I'd mention that I visually checked the consumption of my machine the other day....
Looking at the wheel spinning on the meter, while my 24" ACM bandsaw was running with a 1" blade on it.
It has a three phase dual voltage, 3hp motor.
I was quite pleasantly surprised at how efficient it was, drawing little more than an old laptop.

[Matt Mattingley]

As a residential consumer there is absolutely no reason to buy brand new three phase equipment in my opinion.

Yes, I am quoting myself. Maybe I should’ve put “hobbyist” after residential. (One man shops, not relying on shop income for livelihood.)

I think the biggest single phase motor I’ve ever seen on a machine was 10 hp requiring 60A Circuit.

One thing I have commonly seen, as soon as machines start using multiple motors for one common process, they are usually three phase.

Most of my stationary equipment is three-phase. They were bought from industry, at about 10% or less of its new replacements value.

Yeah the good old machines are big and heavy, but not much wears out. My oldest machine (I think) is 1942. It is a Do-All bandsaw 3-phase. I guarantee it will still be around in 50 years. Why...because it can weld its own blades and it was built right 76 years ago. It does weigh in just over 1000 pounds. It cost me $750. It is 230 V three-phase. I’m pretty sure it’s comparable new will be 10 times the price, and it will not be around in 50 years from now.

[Lee Schierer]

My understanding is that three phase power is used for industrial applications to balance the electrical load. If large industrial shops with lots of machines used single phase power they could cause unbalanced loads on the electrical grid. They would have to pay attention to which phase they connected new equipment to during installation and when running various machines throughout their facility. Using three phase eliminates those problems. They can start and stop any machine at anytime without concern about balanced load.

[Mark Hennebury]

I had at the start had 3 phase in my shops as they were commercial buildings. in 1991, i moved into a small commercial building in an industrial park that did not have three phase, after getting a $30,000 quote for running the powerline 100ft from the pole to the building i purchased a used roto phase and have used i ever since.I have 240 volts, and transformers for 480 and 600 and the largest motor that i use is 7.5hp the total allowed running at once is 21hp if i recall. Never had any problems. the only downside of the rotophase is the loud hum i makes, but i play music all day anyway so it doesn't really concern me.

PS. Brian, you are welcome.

[Martin Wasner]

Mark, a lot of what figures into the cost of bringing in another service, is how much you'll use it. I had to trench in about 1200' to bring the service into the new shop. I think it ended up costing me $3500. But, I've got about a $1k electric bill each month.

[Mike Heidrick]

A lot of what figures into the cost is how much work you do yourself.

[Martin Wasner]

A lot of what figures into the cost is how much work you do yourself.

I couldn't do any of it myself. As in zero. I ran the feeds out to the transformer, but everything between the transformer and the pole was off limits.