Kitchen Cabinet door surgery

[Warren Lake]

Over the years ive done surgery on different things as needed. Sometimes it harder than others but its always worked out well. Carpenter came by other day needing these doors cut down as a fridge was changed. I said take them back to the guy that built them, he said he only works in MDF now. I said no he just doesnt want to do them. He said yeah.

I kept the doors to take photos. My list of challenges is at an all time high right now and I already have enough grey hair, really just need more hours in the day. In a quick glance I told him

I never make mitered doors I think they look crappy, my opinion which doesnt matter.
I told him I asked the old guy about mitired doors and he said he never made them they look like picture frames.
I told him a while back I emailed major door companies about how they deal with movement at the rails and styles. I dont have issues but some people do, one answer came back from one very big company that the worst movement is in r mitered doors
I said you cut these doors they have to come apart and the panel cut down as well and re raised, cutter matched (thats another reason for original guy)
he said just cut the panel in half and there can be a line, I looked and thought that doesnt sound ideal even if micro bevel put in though that might be a hair better

I said you have a stain that has changed, you have a lacquer that has changed and a sheen to match as well. because they are being made smaller surgery is possible. I have no idea how they are joined in there but I see pins so likely a spline of solid or ply.

Ill put a number of unsorted photos. Non of the mitres are great and a few are opening, not as bad last vanity and kitchen I saw where doors were delivered with open mitres. I have rail and style joints that are tight after 35 years and they should be for good.

you hear people say when questioned about cope and stick the door gets strength from the panel. Maybe it does but the old way doors got strength from the joint. Realize i dont know what is in there for a joint. Both doors are broken on the hinge side close to the panel.

Carpenter said its really common that people change out fridges and this is always an issue. I havent done kitchens so far so do you kitchen guys come across this? and what is the answer? I no speak English.



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[Osvaldo Cristo]

My first try would be create something to fill the gap let by a smaller fridge. A small additional storage area or even some kind of trimming...

My second try would be simply to cut s session of the door either from the frame if your need for shortening is small or in a more radical surgery I would cut off a middle session of each door and glue the remaining parts. Eventually it could demand some additional internal mechanical reinforcement.

My last try would be to try "disassemble" them at glue joints, resize the parts and glue them again.

Good luck in your challenge.

All the best.

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with Osvaldo, I would first try to fill he gap created by the smaller appliance. The biggest problem is going to be getting the mitered frames apart without damage. If you can get them apart, cutting new miters should be pretty easy. Cutting down the width of the panels should be fairly easy to do. You just need to be careful when you glue the two halves of the panel back together to make sure the front surface lines up perfectly. There shouldn't be any need for new stain unless you get some tear out along your cut lines.

I would quote the price of a larger refrigerator for the work and offer absolutely no guarantee.

[Jeff Heath]

I have built a lot of mitered doors in my day as a cabinetmaker. For doors with moulded profiles, like yours, it's the only way they can be joined. A cope and stick approach to construction doesn't work with a detailed moulded profile.

Every mitered door I ever built was reinforced with a spline. Some mass produced mitered doors will have a biscuit. Either way, the likelihood of getting the miters apart without destroying the wood is very unlikely.

The chance of matching your finish, given time and oxidation changes to the existing finish, is even less likely. It will, most likely, look like a patched up sore thumb.

If you want it to look good, I would caution against trying to take apart and rebuild your existing doors. It will, most likely, look like Fido's rear end when finished.

Just my .02 of honesty.

[Bradley Gray]

Those doors are ugly! Looks like the corners are splined and the splines pinned.Not much chance of doing a stellar job. An antique dealer I used to do a lot of work for called jobs like this "making chicken salad out of chicken sh__"

I think you could cut the miters apart with a thin kerf saw such as the pull-cut saws made for flush cutting plugs. Cut the middle out of the panel as the carpenter wants.

Ask him to not divulge whodunnit!

[John TenEyck]

Cut the rails, top and bottom on one side, parallel with the miter but don't touch the stile. I'd use a handsaw and you have to be very careful not to hit the panel, especially on the front side. Once the rails are cut you will be able to pull out the panels if they weren't pinned in the middle. If they were you'll have to get those pins out or pull the panel hard enough that they pull out on their own. Cut whatever you need out of the middle and glue them back together using whatever you want to make sure the front faces are perfectly aligned. No finishing should be needed although a new coat of lacquer wouldn't hurt. Cut the rail miters to the new length and then use whatever joinery you have that can deal with the partially assembled frame. My horizontal router mortiser would have no trouble putting mortises in the ends of the rails and stile for loose tenons. Dowels, a biscuit joiner, or Domino would work, too. Slide in the panel and glue up the two joints. If you only used a biscuit for the joinery then you might consider putting a spline through the outside corners to reinforce them. That would only require a little stain or dye work to get a close match.

John

[Mark Bolton]

If I had to take those apart and change the dimensions I would use a router to plow out the back of the sticking on and pop the panel out, then just take the frames to the miter saw, cut them down, re-spline or dowel the miters, put them back together with dark glue, cut the panels down and put them back in from the back with some quick shop made trim or 1/4 round pre-stained and shot with some rattle can laquer.

[lowell holmes]

I would buy some lip mould at Lowes or Home Depot, make or buy a miter box and make some new plywood cabinet doors.

A sled on the table saw works well also.

[Peter Christensen]

Time for a wine rack above the fridge.

[Warren Lake]

interesting thought for panel removal but cutting the styles and slipping it out first would be less damage i dont think its pinned as it doesnt line up to corner miters most are off thhough I get expansion and contraction make it move though it would move evenly if pinned unless it was a guy who doesnt care and didnt center it. John you said dont cut the styles, did you switch them in your mind its the styles that have to be cut shorter not the rails.

I havent used rattle can in 35 years and dont use it. Not making new doors not even sure I will do it just wanted to see if anyone had any more brilliant ideas than the first things that came to my mind. The guy who built the kitchen wont touch it and if anyone should its him he knows what he did. Did check with a friend who worked at two top kitchen companies and he had nothing to offer other than hes seen mitred doors open up.

[Mark Bolton]

I rarely use rattle can anything but if I have 8 pieces of quarter round to apply to the back of a door repair I'm not going to catalyze a batch of finish to spray some tiny little quarter round on the back of a door repair. Were not talking about a historic conservation lol. Just getting thr doors to size without having to match any finish. Heck, for a job like this I may even rout a glass retainer groove and hold the panel in with some brown vinyl push-in glass retainer. It's a lose your shirt job with regards to making any money so out the door down and dirty would be my mode. No need to over complicate it.

[rudy de haas]

Why not offer to make a complete new set of doors for that kitchen? Since the owner is already paying for some updating, getting these uglies replaced as part of the deal might be seen as reasonable - and you get to make a few bucks while providing a quality product.

[John TenEyck]

Yep, I misread it Warren and thought the rails had to be shortened. Thanks for your correction. That being the case, the panel just got a lot harder as you would have to recut the profile on whichever end is cut off and then refinish it. It just got a lot more complicated, or at least more of a time suck to match the old finish. But at least you don't have to cut the panel and glue it back together.

As for making money or not, it depends upon who's doing it and your shop rate. I suspect Mark's overhead makes this type of work a complete loser, so if there isn't the promise or at least suggestion of profitable work to follow he would be wise to decline. For a small shop, however, you might be able to make a little money or at least break even. For me, it's all good. I've gotten some pretty nice follow on work by first doing repair/modification work for people to show them what I'm capable of.

John

[Warren Lake]

thanks John helps me know im not confused

yeah on the panel right would be make a knife re raise it. Stain would be hard, lacquer if only on that portion masked off more work. Carpenter threw out some numbers. Ive only ever charged for time and materials. The odd person I hear throw out numbers way higher than what has gone in. Ive never believed in that. I worked for a guy making massive coin. I was told charge him more he expects that. He was charged the same as anyone else. Any surgery work in the past has worked out well. One was a very big endeavour even to disassemble and get back to the shop. Every step there was a chance of damage even getting it out and loaded then safely back and and.

[J.R. Rutter]

For me this sort of job falls into the "No good deed goes unpunished." category. Every time I take on one of these little jobs because I take pity on someone, it becomes half a day or more of futzing around. No way I can charge the normal shop rate for that, so it is pure charity work.

Miter doors are a lot easier to rework than cope/stick. Personally, I would cut all 4 corners apart on the stile side of the joint, then trim the rails back to exact length. Cut the stiles to size and biscuit the joints back together (or domino, dowel, etc., whatever method you use most). The profile seems pretty standard on the panel, but it is difficult to re-cut the end grain without any blowout. Often seems to boil down to luck. Since these are for over a fridge, you could put the fresh cut on top so that it is less obvious. Try to find a rattle can stain/finish that is close and mist it onto the end grain with light coats until it is as good as it can be, then switch to clear. For re-gluing the miters, be sure to put a light coat of glue on, let it soak in for a minute, then apply more glue lightly and clamp.