upgrading an old cyclone?

[Aaron carter]

Another dust collection question. I have an old original oneida cyclone dust collector with an internal filter, 1.5 hp, and a 12.5" impeller. I just changed the layout of my shop and added another leg to my dust collection line which is going to increase my static pressure to a point where i feel my collector will be much too under powered... I am thinking about changing to a wynn external filter and upgrading the motor to a 3hp leeson, and i think i have the room to increase the size of the impeller. However dust separation is not great regardless... Alternatively there is a donald torit 20 for sale super cheap that would also need some upgrades including changing thw motor where i could go to a 5hp leeson and wynn filters for about $800 total but it is too tall for my shop and i would have to build a shed next to my shop to house it and pipe my filter in into the shop to keep my warm air in the winter... Or should i just wait and save for a clearvue?35356018_10155597970206547_5168935145792602112_o.jpg35385696_10155597970566547_370684050198757376_o.jpg35508319_10155597970386547_5842121155762192384_o.jpg

[Peter Christensen]

Why would you need to change the motor on the Donaldson Torit?

I mentioned it yesterday in another thread that a cyclone works when tilted over so you can make it shorter at the expense of wall space but you can always tuck things above / below it on shelves. If it is the over a drum version then tilting the cyclone and motor to 45 degrees would take about 2' off the total height. You could have the drum outside with the cyclone inside.

[David Kumm]

The Torit 20" cyclone was used with their 3-5 hp motors. The impeller is likely a straight blade 14-15" radial but may be curved. I'd bet it is straight. The cyclone design has a helical baffle inside and is a better and more expensive design than found on hobby cyclones. Very close to the Clearvue design. If the impeller is radial you should source a 5 hp used Baldor or Leeson and a vfd. You can then speed or slow the impeller somewhat to adjust the motor to pull at FLA capacity for your longest runs. A radial impeller gives you better bang for the buck when adjusting speed than a curved blade but it is also louder. I run my Torit with the motor and housing separated and in the attic but it is much easier to run it as a unit. I think I got mine for about 300 total so yes they go stupid cheap and are a much heavier unit than hobby versions. worth the hassle. I'd run it into two or preferable three Wynn Nano Filters. Reducing the back pressure extends the lives of the filters and improves the filtration.DSCN3511.jpgDSCN3512.jpgDSCN3602.jpgDSCN3603.jpg My system runs 9 amps @ 60hz with gates all closed and about 16 when open. I can speed up to about 68 hz and stay within my 7.5 hp motor limits. Impeller is straight blade 15.75 x 6.25 Cincinnati RBE 9. Sounds like a jet though so I seldom do that. My cfm tops out at about 2200 so I run 4 filters rated for 600 cfm each. Dave

[Jim Becker]

As someone who owned that original, small Oneida system, I'm not sure I'd put a lot of money into it. Going to external filters absolutely helps (I did that), but you may be very limited in what you can change relative to the impeller due to the size. You may eek a little more performance out of it, but not a huge amount. When I bought my J/P, I opted to upgrade to a more substantial cyclone. My original one is still serving well in a friend's shop as his tools have more modest collection requirements.

[Aaron carter]

The Torit 20" cyclone was used with their 3-5 hp motors. The impeller is likely a straight blade 14-15" radial but may be curved. I'd bet it is straight. The cyclone design has a helical baffle inside and is a better and more expensive design than found on hobby cyclones. Very close to the Clearvue design. If the impeller is radial you should source a 5 hp used Baldor or Leeson and a vfd. You can then speed or slow the impeller somewhat to adjust the motor to pull at FLA capacity for your longest runs. A radial impeller gives you better bang for the buck when adjusting speed than a curved blade but it is also louder. I run my Torit with the motor and housing separated and in the attic but it is much easier to run it as a unit. I think I got mine for about 300 total so yes they go stupid cheap and are a much heavier unit than hobby versions. worth the hassle. I'd run it into two or preferable three Wynn Nano Filters. Reducing the back pressure extends the lives of the filters and improves the filtration.DSCN3511.jpgDSCN3512.jpgDSCN3602.jpgDSCN3603.jpg My system runs 9 amps @ 60hz with gates all closed and about 16 when open. I can speed up to about 68 hz and stay within my 7.5 hp motor limits. Impeller is straight blade 15.75 x 6.25 Cincinnati RBE 9. Sounds like a jet though so I seldom do that. My cfm tops out at about 2200 so I run 4 filters rated for 600 cfm each. Dave

Thank you for the detailed response! You have convinced me that it is worth the hassle to go with the Donaldson Torit. My shop is only 22' X 22' I have a 3hp sawstop, 8" jointer,miter saw, dewalt 735 planer (planning to upgrade to a 5hp 20"), 17 inch grizzly bandsaw, spindle sander, drill press, scroll saw, also planning on adding a supermax drum sander in the future when money starts going on the trees I planted. The dust collector I am looking at does come with a 3 hp 3ph Leeson motor, I was considering selling that one and purchasing a single phase 5hp single phase Leeson motor and avoid messing with a VFD phase converter as I have looked into them before for other tools I considered purchasing but have no experience with them. Alternatively I could purchase the 5hp VFD phase converter and use the 3hp motor with it and wait to move up to the 5hp 3ph motor with the VFD. My only concern is I think it might become annoying constantly adjusting the rate based on the machine I am using. I will have about $400-600 in Wynn filters alone plus the cost of materials for the outdoor shed. I like your attic idea but due to the small size of my shop I feel that it would be most beneficial to put it outside the shop and free up some room as well as keep the noise out, just a pain doing the initial up... I have a 7 acre property in a relatively rural area so noise to the neighbors really isn't an issue.

[Jim Becker]

You don't need to keep adjusting the VFD...it's primary purpose for this kind of project is to convert your single phase power to 3 phase power to operate the existing motor. Yes, you might decide to tweak the frequency/speed to get the best performance once installed, but it's not something you need to continually do.

[David Kumm]

Keep the three phase motor and put a vfd on it. The soft start is great for DC and you will always run at 60hz or slightly higher if the amp draw allows it. I only adjust mine when I'm using the edge sander at the end of the line or just want to clear the air faster than my overhead will do it. Once you find the sweet spot on the vfd it is seldom adjusted. If the impeller is 14" vs the 15" on the 5 hp, changing a motor will likely not benefit you. Impeller diameter can only give so much cfm efficiently and you can't exceed the hz too much without increasing voltage or you create other issues. Dave

[ray grundhoefer]

speaking of stupid cheap I got an older torit model FB 20 with a 3hp 3 phase motor for 5 dollars at an auction this last winter. It came with the dust bin below instead of a 50 gal barrel.
I plan to get the system all together and use a 3 phase generator from work to test it before I get a vfd for it. then I will either get that or upgrade to a 5hp motor

[Aaron carter]

Any suggestions for a hood value phase converter vfd?

[Peter Christensen]

The one I have is the Aussies use for ClearVue's is a Powtran from China. Mine is the one for 5hp but you can get one for 3hp. It was $170US plus shipping (about $75 at the time but I negotiated it down to $50). Took about 2 weeks to arrive and I would recommend you let your credit card company know you will be making a purchase so they don't automatically block the transaction. I bought through Alibaba but you can order direct if you want. Either way you can ask them which one they recommend and they may have a simpler and cheaper alternative. Might not want to wait too long if your government puts the 25% tariffs on.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...838.0.0.51R5EL

http://www.powtran.com/en-us/product/show-2196.aspx

This is the programing guide from the Aussie ClearVue site. The book that comes with the VFD is 182 pages.
http://clearvueoz.com.au/wp-content/...owtran-VFD.pdf

[Aaron carter]

As someone who owned that original, small Oneida system, I'm not sure I'd put a lot of money into it. Going to external filters absolutely helps (I did that), but you may be very limited in what you can change relative to the impeller due to the size. You may eek a little more performance out of it, but not a huge amount. When I bought my J/P, I opted to upgrade to a more substantial cyclone. My original one is still serving well in a friend's shop as his tools have more modest collection requirements.

Hey Jim, I ended up not getting the donaldson torit, it was on an auction site and got too rich for my blood. I did end up getting the external filter for the older onieda unit until I can afford a larger DC unit. My question is, how did you mount a baffle to the exhaust for the filter to attach to?

[Jim Becker]

Hey Jim, I ended up not getting the donaldson torit, it was on an auction site and got too rich for my blood. I did end up getting the external filter for the older onieda unit until I can afford a larger DC unit. My question is, how did you mount a baffle to the exhaust for the filter to attach to?

Honestly...I don't remember as it was so many years ago and it was done prior to my active participation here with no thread to document. If I can remember, I'll try to contact the fellow who has it in his shop and ask the question.