Bowl Gouge Grind

[Louie Sherwin]

Hi Reed,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

The grind on Brian's gouges is almost identical to my grinds. The 40/40 grind just doesn't feel right to me, but I do like a 45/45, and I can get very clean cuts with it... I don't know if you could post a video or not. Other than that, a play date might help me understand your points...

I have been thinking about a video but I would have to revert one of my gouges to attempt something like that. A play date would be fun too so if I'm ever up your way or if your ever down in SoCal give me a PM and see if we can connect.

All the discussion about grind ultimately comes down to this, "What do we find as an acceptable result of our efforts?". My standard of what is acceptable was raised way up since coming across Stuart's teaching. And that standard is now cuts with essentially no torn grain on the surfaces of a bowl or across the end grain of a spindle with a minimum of effort. I can now accomplish that more often than not.

That said I think it is useful to keep in mind that what we are doing as turners is quite a complicated skill that happens at quite high speed. At safe turning speeds something like a mile of wood is passing by the gouge every ninety seconds. There are a number of things that have to come together at the same time to turn a beautiful piece. The sharpening of tools including shape is only one element of what Stuart calls his seven fundamentals. In the end all of these have to come together at the same time to make even a single cut around the side of a bowl. This challenge is why I find craft so compelling.

-louie

[Randy Heinemann]

Brian, my observation is that very few people, if any, completely understand the intricacies of the different bowl gouge grinds!

Those who swear by one grind or the other likely do so because they have used it enough to be comfortable with it and may have even adjusted at least some of their style of turning to fit the gouge. I base this on looking at pictures of gouge grinds from all over and from different times - if one was always better than the others everyone would use it but people have been turning wood for a long time successfully with a variety of grinds. I've been reading through some old books, the latest written in 1959 that has some pictures of grinds that are far different from what I and some I know use. The author was evidently using them successfully. Some grinds may be better for some things than others but as I mentioned before, all of them will cut wood (if sharp). I think you are headed well down the track of excellence!!

JKJ

I agree with this completely. I am relatively new to turning (about a 1 1/2 years) and recently acquired 1/2", 3/8", and 1/4" "David Ellsworth" (Crowne)
gouges. They are ground at 60 degrees with swept back ends. I love them. The instructor I did a couple of sessions with likes the 40 degree grind on gouges because, when taking out the center of a bowl you don't have to bring your arm as far away from your body to start the cut (don't know if I made sense with that comment).

However, because I now use the Ellsworth ground gouges all the time and am acquiring more skill with them, I find that they work very well. In this case, the gouges are made with particle metallurgy and the steel is harder than a standard gouge. They hold an edge for a very long time, are very sharp after I sharpen them, and have been produced much improved bowl surfaces for me. I doubt that is because the 60 degree grind is superior, but more likely because I have been using them exclusively and have just gotten better with them.

So, my point is that I think the best grind and/or gouge is the one that works for you. I personally don't know anything about why one grind should work better than another or what the pros and cons of each are but, since the 60 degree grind is producing the results i want, then that works for me. I would guess that I'll get better with those gouges because I use them all the time. It's our skill with the tool that really produces the results that satisfy us.

[Reed Gray]

Louie, well, maybe you can come up to the Oregon Woodturning Symposium this coming March... I don't get down that way much at all, just too crowded for me...

Randy, funny thing about the swept back gouges/Ellsworth/Irish grind gouges, I don't use them at all any more. I did wear two of Dave's gouges down to nubs, but switched to other tools that are more specialized and work better for me... I am different...

robo hippy