Table saw as router table - router fence considerations

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Thank you, Chris. That gives me some more to go on. The idea of the cnc spindle and VFD sounds intriguing, but I’m not sure what kind of Pandora’s box I’m opening there with the upside-down orientation, water cooling, etc. I will do some more web-surfing to see what I can find on that application. Sounds like it’s a lot quieter which is one of the main benefits.

Seems like the AUK/Swiss Tec has been used quite a bit in Australia and the UK (hence the name I guess). So are the actual router motors pretty good and this was just a problem with the speed control, or are the router not so great from the start.

When it comes down to it, I likely won’t be changing speeds all that often, so easy accessibility to the speed control maybe isn’t that big a deal. Seems like tons of people use these routers (PC, DeWalt, Triton) in their tables every day without the access being a big deal. I’ve got some time, I’ll keep checking things out and see what I decide on.

thanks again for the help,

Dean

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Forget to mention, Bruce... nice setup. Looks like it serves you well. I’m pretty sure I’m going with the 52”...particularly since I’m leaning heavily toward integrating the router into the right side table. Can’t go wrong with that extra space.

Dean

[Mike Wilkins]

The 36" will be fine, especially since you have a track saw to break down sheet goods. I have the same 36" capacity with my table saw; however I am spoiled as I also have a short-stroke sliding table saw. No problem cross cutting sheet goods; not so good for ripping 8 footers.

[Nick Decker]

Dean,

FWIW, I recently added one of the Incra dust cabinets under my router table and had the same initial misgivings about it being a hassle to change speed settings on the router. Turns out it's really a non-issue for me, and I'm old enough that I don't bend as well as I used to. Takes longer to consult my chart to confirm which speed I need to plug in. This is on the PC 7518 router motor, I don't know about the others you've mentioned.

There was a discussion here recently that included the rather new Jessem router you mentioned. At least a couple of us are in kinda the same boat as you, in that there just isn't enough known about it yet and we're waiting to hear more. I emailed Jessem and all they would say was that it was made to their specs, which were roughly based on a Milwaukee router that they used to sell with one of their packages. I'm not sure what to make of that, in light of Chris's comments about the AUK router.

I'd love for you to buy one and give us your impressions!

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Nick,
Thanks. That feedback on the dust enclosure is helpful. Would love to hear/read more about how you like that setup. So, do you have it mounted in a separate router table or are combined with your table saw? The reason I ask is because I’m not sure about how to mount that box under the table if it’s not mdf. It looks like it is held in place by screwing into the underside of the table, which won’t be an option for a cast table extension on a table saw. Maybe I should make a call to Incra and SawStop and ask them directly. If I do and I get answers, I’ll post here in case anyone is interested.

you never know, Nick. I might just roll the dice and be the guinea pig. Although, I’m not exactly a power user so my impressions would likely not be as valuable as someone who puts the rig through its paces and has a lot of experience to compare it to.

Mike,
that is still in question a little bit... 36” vs 52”. The thing is, it’s only $100 difference, plus the cost of an additional cast table piece. I do have room, although economizing on space is something I should be thinking about. Like I mentioned, it will fill up fast.
its funny because there are 2 distinct camps... those that say the 52” is a must and those that are perfectly happy with the 36”. I guess I need to evaluate what I will most likely be doing in the shop in my retirement. It won’t be anything commercial. Breaking down sheet goods will mostly be for structures around the “farm”. I plan on having a layout table of sorts where I can set up the foam board and make sheet-good cuts with the track saw.

hmmmm, more questions...

Dean

[Nick Decker]

Dean,

My set-up is as follows: Woodpeckers' table and fence, with the addition of the WP precision fence adjuster. The table is MDF, layered onto a sheet of 3/4" Baltic birch plywood. After a couple years of seasonal temp/humidity changes, I see no signs of any flatness problems or sag. The PC 8518 sits in an Incra/Jessem MastRLift II.

The WP router fence dust collection port was OK, but not great, and pretty much useless for bottom cuts like grooves and such, so I added the Incra dust box underneath. At that time, I only had a 1 hp portable dust collector, but even that did a good job of getting almost all of the dust from those kinds of cuts. I've since upgraded to a 2 hp DC, and it's gotten even better. Surprisingly, there's enough air flow from below to deal with what I used to have to use the fence dust port for. When I open the access door on the box, it's spotless in there. (Side note: I ordered the complete set of slotted metal Magnalock inserts with mine, and I find them unnecessary. I only use the largest, most open one and it works for whatever size bit I'm using. Maximum airflow = good.)

I don't know about mounting one of them to cast iron, but I'm guessing Incra can help you there.

36" vs. 52": Before my purchase of the 36" PCS, I was looking into ways to cut down the premium fence rails to 30", as my space is pretty limited (single car garage). Again, a non-issue. I just no longer keep my car in the garage, problem solved! Hindsight, I could've even gone with the 52" fence, but I'm glad I didn't. That much flat area, for me, is a clutter magnet and I know myself well enough to know I'd abuse it.

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Nick, that Woodpeckers setup sounds nice. I was looking at those , Incra and some others before I started really leaning towards integrating into the table saw. The Magnalock option is why Ithink I have settled on Incra’s version of the MastRLift II. All things being equal between that and the straight Jess Em version, why not go with that option. Now, if it had been all gold anodized, that might have driven me back away from Incra . Interesting about the use of the rings. I had expected to order the entire set as well...may rethink that.

i suffer from the same tendencies with the clutter magnet, but the 52” might mean a single layer of cr@p instead of 2... easier to find what I need... I am getting better about that though. Used to be really bad when my garage served as my shop...always had too much stuff piled on the workbench. Better about it now in my dedicated shop, although the garage workbench still is covered (one of the tasks on my list while on vacation).

i just called SawStop about a couple of things, one of which being how to attach their version of the dust collection box to the underside of the castrouter table extension. The person helping me didn’t seem to really understand what I was talking about at first, she thought I was talking about mounting it under the pine/melamine table extension. Once she understood that I was talking about the cast iron version, she suggested that just screwed to the underside of the wing. I said there would have to be threaded bosses cast into the wing for that to be the case and she seemed to imply there was...I’m still not so sure so will have to investigate further.

UPDATE: I took a look at the manual for the SawStop cast router table extension and dust collection box. It does indeed appear that there are threaded bosses cast into the underside of the table to accept the screws that hold the DC box. I guess that’s the benefit of buying a “system” from a single manufacturer. I will check out the Incra offering to see if it looks like they do the same thing... just to keep my options open.

thanks for the info,

Dean

[Nick Decker]

Just to be clear, these are the rings I'm talking about:

https://www.incrementaltools.com/INC...smlringset.htm

If using the regular rings without the Clean Sweep cabinet, the full set is useful.

As far as separate router tables go, the WP table/fence combo has been excellent for me, no complaints. If I had it to do over I think I'd look more closely at the Incra system. Or, maybe I'm just a tool junkie.

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Yep, those are the rings I was thinking of. I’ve watched a few videos of them in use. They make sense and seem to work as designed with the cabinet. I may end up with the SawStop version of the DC enclosure, but since I will be using the Jess Em/Incra router lift, I assume the rings will provide the same benefit.

Dean

[Robert Stanton]

Looks like you've gotten lots of input. Some of which is beyond my skill level. My setup might be less expensive and simpler. I use a cast iron insert with a JessEm lift. PC7518 with a SuperPID speed controller. My fence is VSCTools with an 80/20 extrusion that serves both the saw and the router. This is less convenient but conserves space.

[Chris Parks]

Thank you, Chris. That gives me some more to go on. The idea of the cnc spindle and VFD sounds intriguing, but I’m not sure what kind of Pandora’s box I’m opening there with the upside-down orientation, water cooling, etc. I will do some more web-surfing to see what I can find on that application. Sounds like it’s a lot quieter which is one of the main benefits.

Seems like the AUK/Swiss Tec has been used quite a bit in Australia and the UK (hence the name I guess). So are the actual router motors pretty good and this was just a problem with the speed control, or are the router not so great from the start.

When it comes down to it, I likely won’t be changing speeds all that often, so easy accessibility to the speed control maybe isn’t that big a deal. Seems like tons of people use these routers (PC, DeWalt, Triton) in their tables every day without the access being a big deal. I’ve got some time, I’ll keep checking things out and see what I decide on.

thanks again for the help,

Dean

Dean, I will PM you a link to an ongoing thread in the Aussie forums as the archaic rules on linking here do not allow me to post it and you can't argue with a brick wall.

The link goes to a router table one of the members made about 12 months ago. It uses a conventional router and has totally eliminated dust extraction issues which is a first as far as I am aware. I have recently excavated that thread as it was always the OP's intention to use a CNC spindle instead of a router. There are air cooled spindles that do a good job with no issues and simplify things as well. The big advantage of using a spindle is that you save a truck load on the lift as it is not needed due to side mounting of the spindle and the top becomes far simpler and can be lifted. Ignore the talk of the digital control of fences and lifts if that is not your thing and just use a typical manual control. The AUK motor came about (I think) due to there being no 240V router motors available for the rest of the world to use so I am not surprised that its existence is not known in the US, you guys simply don't need it.

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Robert... simple is good... at this point, I’ll take a dose of simple ,

You may not realize it, but you said a mouthful and bring up a very interesting question... since the PC75182 router has a soft-start and variable speed on-board, how does it behave with your external speed controller? A number of speed controllers I’ve looked at, as well as a post/article I’ve read warn against pairing an external speed controller with a router that has integral soft-start and variable speed. I have heard it stated as putting a computer ahead of another computer which, theoretically, can mess up the circuitry on-board the router that does the soft start and speed variation.

So, maybe that’s all theoretical and, in practice, there’s nothing to be concerned about. I assume ivy has all been working for you and your router has not been releasing any odd-colored smoke.... if this is the case, it would sure make that part of my plans much easier.

I would be interested in hearing some others as well - either for some additional information on why this should not be done, or to tell me it’s much ado about nothing, everybody does it and it is no problem.

Nice setup, by the way. I would be interested in seeing more pictures. The wraparound outfeed table that incorporates into your router insert and fence rail looks intriguing.

how do you like the VSCT fence?

P.S. I particularly like the most valuable shop tool this time of the year... the FLYSWATTER!! The mosquitoes have made their appearance in force and my legs are showing it.

Dean

[Robert Stanton]

You are correct that any OEM circuitry must be bypassed prior to installing aftermarket devices. I had issues with my PC router speed control. It failed once under warranty and again after I got it repaired. A fellow Creeker recommended the Super PID. I posted my speed control project here. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....rol&highlight= I have been mostly happy with the VSCT fence. I'm sure there are better but for my budget I am happy. I need to remember how to upload photos to this site and I will post more cabinet pictures. Indeed the flyswatter is a necessity here in SE Georgia.

[Robert Stanton]

This unit has a 100 amp breaker in its bowels powered via a 20ft 10/4 running into a 220 wall outlet. The saw is wired 220v. The outlets have their own breaker. There is an outlet on the back designated for the dust collection unit. There is vacuum plumbing in the cabinet that services the table saw and the router box. The vacuum outlet turns on via 3-way switches located near the saw switch and another near the router switch. All drawers are Shop Fox bearing sliders. The extension table mates using dowel rods. Holes were drilled through the dowels to capture it to the main table via ball lock pins. The main cabinet has (5) 300# urethane caster swivels. The extension table has 4 of the same for consistency. The hard maple tops are 1 3/4" available from Grainger. If I missed something, please ask.
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[Dean Moldenhauer]

Well... to close out this thread... As I posted in another, separate thread, I pulled the trigger on a stand-alone router table setup. I decided on the JessEm complete setup that uses the Mast-R-Lift Excel II system.

Thanks for all of the input and advice while trying to decide on table saw mounted vs. stand-alone. At this point, I decided that, since I have the room, stand-alone was going to work better for me - at least for my immediate needs. Seems like it offered me a bit more flexibility and will allow me to get a router table employed in my shop immediately rather than waiting until I get my new table saw.

Dean