What type of power requirements does the weinig p22 require? just curious thanks it uses the corrugated heads?
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What type of power requirements does the weinig p22 require? just curious thanks it uses the corrugated heads?
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P22 is not massive, it's like 5400 pounds and one of the most compact moulders until you get to the small unimats.
It needs more power than the logosol for sure. Can't remember off the top of my head.
I would rather s4s on a small 5 head moulder than one of those logosols.
Yes corrugated knives.
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IMG_1594.jpgI could probably justify the larger machine like the P22 I just don't have the power to run it in my shop and that's why I went with the logosol 360. Its big enough for my needs but doesn't make the neighbors lights dim when I turn it on lol. I went from rough lumber to flooring for this floor 2300 sq ft in 5" plank qtr sawn white oak rustic grade in a little under 5 days with my 360. I installed and finished it too
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I have run a p22 on a 30hp rpc.
I have been dealing with 7 head wadkin's and 6 head Hydromats for the last couple years, I forgot how little They were compared to one of those.
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Who wouldnt? And then when your S4S on the P22, you'd want the bigger, faster, and then with that, youd want the bigger faster, until you realize your running a machine you cant make any money with in your area. As I said, in my area, and for the work I have done here for 20 years, it would be a fools errand to lock up that much floor space. In a different market, sure, but just because "I would rather" do something, doesnt make it economically viable. Business 101.Originally Posted by Darcy Warner
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I don't agree. The faster I can get the work done, the faster I can set the machine up, the faster I am done and paid.
This sounds typical of lots of millshops I go into. They wonder why they can't get the bigger more profitable jobs. Well they can't run enough material to keep up with delivery schedules.
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Of course in a market where there are bigger, more profitable jobs to be gotten. Its all about the market (or moving to one lol). This area has zero demand for much of that material hence there are no large shops (well one) in perhaps a 150 mile radius. Now if you want to setup a shop and try to feed Lowes and Home Depot, and possibly pickup the 2-3 remaining privately own yards left in the area, sure, you can compete with the one thats doing that now and was just sold.
Im not being pessimistic. I have lived and operated as a GC in this my area for 20 years and actually enjoy the lower pace and was blessed with some very nice custom work. The demand (read $$) simply isnt here. If it were I would gladly be building a new building and forging ahead with wreckless abandon.
In my market when you do an honest accounting for the dedicated floor space and ancillary equipment a large molder would consume, and the manpower to run it, if you think it'd be making you money you'll be following the fuzzy math.
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I have created a market 4 or 5 different times over with different products, services, etc. each time.
I set a friend up with a nicely tooled p22, middle of nowhere MO, already killing it making cabinet parts, s4s, flooring and supplying builders with trim packages.
He made his market.
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people can create markets but still your setting has more control of that than you do.
Do you think Magnus Walker could do what he did if he stayed in England.
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Agreed. As I say, its not pessimism. Im running a full time shop making what the local market wants as well as offering up "the rest". But the market is what it is. There is no one here to supply "cabinet parts" to. There is only one other shop that is not breaking any records. Two other shops closed up last year. I have a flooring installer a mile away from my shop running two locations and install crews that can buy factory finished flooring for cheaper than I can buy rough sawn lumber for. And he has "character grade" with factory applied UV finish that is 10X any finish you can apply in the field for less than that. Product lines that offer random widths, on and on. I wouldnt even run my own flooring if I could unless it was something completely odd and unavailable or I was hell bent on the trees coming off my own property or something. Trim packages we compete easily on regularly as it is but they are high custom projects that have dozens of different small run profiles on a single job and are rare.
Several individuals have tried to make a go with product that would most definitely sell in other markets. Your not going to sell 2800 pinterest river tables here, or a lot of custom furniture, or super high end cabs. Everyone wants one until they see the $300 worth of epoxy and dye, a pair of live edge slabs that they see in their firewood pile every winter to the tune of a few hundred $$ more, and forget about the hourly shop rate. Not gonna happen here. Its either adapt or move. There are the occasionals but its far from a weekly occurrence.
Most of the large builders in the area run their own shops if they do high custom work and anything non-custom is coming from the home center. And if your competing in that market your not making any money (hence fuzzy math).
Last edited by Mark Bolton; 06-14-2018 at 5:34 PM.
Contributor
knew a guy here in So. Ohio that had a good sized sawmill/kiln operation mostly dealing with white oak for export. He tried adding a big moulder and support equipment intending to wholesale hardwood mouldings. His "wholesale" orders were mostly pass through special orders from lumber yards. The venture nearly sank his whole operation.
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But..... if you're looking for a flat cut, or just a back cut you're better off going with a tersa style head I think. No sharpening or calibrating for a new grind. Just swap knives. They aren't cheap, but they aren't crazy expensive either.
I know Darcy knows this, but uses moulder heads can be bought by the pallet are basically scrap value
[OP]
Member
Are we talking clothes or Porsches? I guess it doesn't really matter though.
As an aside his "277" 911 is one of the most droolworthy P-cars in the world to a weekend track rat like me. I used to see him a lot at track events but fame seems to have cut into his recreation time. He is a darn good driver and he could walk away from me even with far less horsepower and grip. Heck of a nice guy but a bit...odd... or maybe just English.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Guest
First bottom and first inside really benefit from an insert head, they do the bulk of the work.
For the rest I still prefer corrugated knives and grinding in the head, it helps when you have profile grinders.
I could have bought 3 p22's or two Hydromats for the price of the logosol. The last Hydromat with knives, heads, grinder, spare parts was less than a minimax combo machine. It was 175k new though.
Contributor
I know of several similar scenarios myself. If a large operation starts running some material whether it be shiplap, t&g, or profiles, its usually because the owner has a personal need and while they are running theirs they will run some for sale. As soon as they get what they need, they look at the numbers, and the equipment is idled. It'd be a no brainer for a large operation to toss in a 5K molder to run a batch of material for themselves. Heck, you cant even hardly buy T&G or shiplap in our area. And there is a reason for it. When you add up the costs of the material, the equipment, and the other expenses to run, no one is going to pay for it. The only way your going to create your market is to sell the better product for the same price or cheaper than the low grade thats sold andbought every day. Half as thick, junk, same price. At that point your working for pennies on the hour.
You cant force market creation. You have to fill a need. Unfortunately the majorities needs mainly revolve around lower price with higher quality.
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