Adjusting a 60-1/2, and more beginner sharpening musings

[Alex Liebert]

A couple months ago, I got a lot of help from you guys on tuning up my first plane (a #8), and my struggles sharpening it. I really can't say I've gotten any better at sharpening since then, I always end up sharp but not sharp enough to shave my arm or plane as easily as I want.

Last week I got a Stanley #4, 60-1/2, and a 63 spokeshave at the flea market. (I also saw a #1 in person for the first time, which was fun.) I've been taking a break from my actual project to work on the #4.

I think it's most of the way there. Attached is a picture of the shavings I get. Even and as thin as I could want (right?)

shaving.jpg

I spent hours grinding and honing (mostly grinding) that stupid #4 blade, in the Veritas jig. The blade grinds with a significant skew (takes more off in the back right corner). I had contacted Lee Valley about this when I first started, and the jist of the advice was to make sure it's clamping evenly, make sure I'm not favoring one hand, and that even its off eventually all my blades will just conform to the jig. Here I was thinking I was correcting an already skewed blade, or at least getting this blade to match the jig, but when the 60-1/2 ground the exact same way I started to wonder.

Anyway, it took forever to sharpen and it works fine but I feel like it should be sharper- as per usual for me.

On a wim, I decided to just freehand the 63 blade. I didn't put much thought at all into the angles, I just worried about raising a burr at each grit. And I was able to clean the burr off the back after each grit, instead of just at the end because I was encumbered by the honing guide. About 4 minutes later, it was just as sharp as anything I've ever done with the stupid guide. I don't know if that makes me happy or not- I have to imagine that the hand made edge is inconsistent angles across the width and rolled. But damn it got to the same sharpness in a fraction of the time.

Not sure what to make of all that, but wanted to share with you guys.

Also, I really want that 60-1/2 to be sharp enough to shave end grain, and although its fine on long grain it just hacks up end grain. So to use it I still have to find the magic ingredient missing from my sharpening game, whatever it may be.

Oh, and a question- how does one make lateral adjustments to the 60-1/2? I'm just trying to carefully push it around with my fingers then reclamp the cap iron, but that's frustrating business. Is this one you're supposed to tap with a hammer?

[lowell holmes]

If you place the stone crossways on the bench in front of you, place the iron flat on the stone, lock your wrists while pressing down on the iron,
you can rock back and worth at the hips latterly. This will sharpen the blade. Lift the back of the iron a bit to place a micro bevel on the iron.

The iron should be making thin translucent shavings at this point.

[David Eisenhauer]

I would not worry that the 60-1/2 has "inconsistent angles" after freehand sharpening, just continue to use it and re sharpen after use as indicated. Yes, lateral adjustment is easier done with light taps from a smaller hammer and the amount of adjustment required becomes more intuitive after some practice. When sharpening, occasionally take a close look at the surface of the blade being sharpened to see if it is becoming skewed or out of square and correct on the fly by adjusting the pressure of your fingers on the back of the blade as you press it to the stone. Again, it becomes easier after some practice. Do not become too fixated on "perfect sharpening", just sharpen to raise the burr, clear the burr from the back, then move up to the next grit. Try to keep the edge square, but it is correctable if noticed as you sharpen and a small out-of-square can be compensated for with the lateral adjuster or the hammer. The performance of the plane after sharpening is the important issue.

[David Ragan]

Great shaving there-as pretty as it is, only practical on, as you point out, end grain, and smoothing.

Freehand honing is great @ the bench for getting right back to work.

I use a little wooden faced hammer sometimes on the little planes; for severe adjustment, I just loosen the wheel and push the blade over.

So many factors go into how the blade is finally presented to the work; I try to get everything 90*, even, consistent, etc, and the blade still is not square to the sole.

The Veritas jig-although rather fidgety, has always worked great for me.

Am having trouble getting a mental picture of what you describe...but I'm tired.

Good time to call it a day.

D

[Alex Liebert]

Great shaving there-as pretty as it is, only practical on, as you point out, end grain, and smoothing.

Freehand honing is great @ the bench for getting right back to work.

I use a little wooden faced hammer sometimes on the little planes; for severe adjustment, I just loosen the wheel and push the blade over.

So many factors go into how the blade is finally presented to the work; I try to get everything 90*, even, consistent, etc, and the blade still is not square to the sole.

The Veritas jig-although rather fidgety, has always worked great for me.

Am having trouble getting a mental picture of what you describe...but I'm tired.

Good time to call it a day.

D

Thanks David! My intention for that plane is smoothing, so I'm happy with everything except the sharpness. The wood there is poplar so its forgiving on that regard I think. But I just haven't been able to achieve shaving my arm, and it takes more inertia and less fine control than I'd like to plane (which I definitely attribute to sharpness at this point, the sole is smooth and waxed.)

I didn't think to take pictures in the process, but here's a rough drawing of what happens every time I use the Veritas jig. This is what grinding the primary bevel would achieve (imagine the black spot is where I draw on with sharpie, and the clear spot is where it will wear.) It's beyond a finger pressure problem, no amount of finger pressure will compensate. To compensate for it I have to actually lift the opposing end of the wheel off the plate:

veritaswear.jpg

I'll be experimenting a lot more with freehand since it seems to work just as well as that jig does for me now. The part that concerns me most is bevel up planes like that 60-1/2. It seems freehand I'm much more likely to have a steep secondary bevel, and on the bevel up plane that will change the cutting angle...probably enough that it's going to just ruin the point of it being a low angle plane right? (I definitely can't cut end grain with that one right now...but again sharpness probably has a lot to do with that, maybe more than attack angle.)

[Alex Liebert]

Thanks david E, I guess I'll be on the lookout for a suitable hammer at the next flea market!

[David Ragan]

veritaswear.jpg

Hi Alex--the picture you show is one that portrays a partial wearing away of the bevel by your stone/abrasive.

I was there yesterday.

The place i try to be is where when I come off the grinder, and mark my bevel in black, at least 80% is flush w the stone/abrasive.

Of course, w a grinder, where the bevel is hollow ground, I'm OK w the middle 3/4 of the bevel remaining black.

In the pursuit of a hollow grind-smaller wheels will give you more accentuated hollows.

One great thing about hollow grind is that with any subsequent free-hand honing-it is easier to index the toe/heel of bevel.

I digress from you situation.

Again, considering the above picture, we are taking for granted that you have set up the blade in the Veritas (or any brand) jig exactly as instructed, and your settings are tight.

Then all you gotta do is keep grinding/honing until the whole bevel is shiny-be patient, without a grinder, this takes a long time.

Then, do not move the blade in the jig, just go up through progressively higher grits, and those hairs will run away in fear from the approaching blade.

It does take forever to hand-power off a lot of metal in the picture you have. I've tried a lot of different systems to do it....I finally got a grinder set up-but that is a whole nother thread.

Just be OCD about your set up in the jig (any honing jig), secure the blade, and keep at it per above.

It will work for you, as long as you go to a fine enough abrasive-that also, sir-is a whole nother thread.

Your revelation will come. Promise

[Alex Liebert]

Hi Alex--the picture you show is one that portrays a partial wearing away of the bevel by your stone/abrasive.

Again, considering the above picture, we are taking for granted that you have set up the blade in the Veritas (or any brand) jig exactly as instructed, and your settings are tight.

Then all you gotta do is keep grinding/honing until the whole bevel is shiny-be patient, without a grinder, this takes a long time.


Your revelation will come. Promise

I agree (and it does take a long time), but at this point I'm not convinced there isn't slop or misalignment in the jig somewhere. The grinding does indeed take a long time, and all my blades are vintage so there's no reason to think they were precisely ground to begin with...but the misalignment seems the same every time, and even if I am honing on a blade the non-straight pattern just happens from the other end. Maybe I'll invest in a tiny engineering square (but I'd only be able to measure if the blade is projecting 90 degrees from that dovetail shaped clamp bar, which won't tell me how the bar aligns with the roller.) It also seems intuitively like the blade is not on the right geometric plane across its x axis (which I can't think of any good way to measure accurately.) I also find that with a blade inserted, and a long rolling stroke, over a couple dozen strokes the jig will always want to meander to the left. If no blade is inserted and I just roll it, it doesn't do this.

[David Ragan]

Well, Alex-I must say--you have me, sir.

I vaguely remember the x y thing. Z is vertical, right?

Taken literally, it sounds like your jig is distorting when stressed by forces from clamping a blade in it.......However, those are stout instruments, and you would have already picked up any sub-par casting.

Maybe someone can come in here w some additional input, or a way to help Alex nail down the source of his error?

Anybody near you a WW or machinist?