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Thread: Has anyone quantified bandsaw resaw cut quality?

  1. #1
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    Has anyone quantified bandsaw resaw cut quality?

    So all you owners of European-made bandsaws keep temping the rest of us folks with tool addictions by toting the benefits of high end bandsaws. There are no shortage of reviews and articles out there and I keep hearing about cut quality from "great" to an OEM claiming the cut needs "just a little sanding". However, the engineer in me that lacks a drum sander for thin pieces is curious just how good this cut quality is?

    As a quick test, I cut a test slice of 1/16" thick by 5.5" wide maple venier with a new wood slicer 1/2" blade at 25,000 psi blade tension and freshly adjusted bearing guides on my steel framed 2 hp Delta 18" bandsaw. With my calipers I measured peak-to-valley saw marks of .004" and a .015" thickness bulge once the blade got into the wood. How much difference have you guys observed on much sturdier saws?

    Hope everyone's weekend is going well,
    Ryan

  2. #2
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    Most of my precision Resawing is for bent lamination and I can get very good surfaces that don't need anything before they go into the form. Lots of things have to be right. The wood the blade then the saw these three things need to all be spot on. The wood is the key to success if it warps badly after each cut your just doomed.
    1. Wood
    2. Blade
    3. Saw setup
    Aj

  3. #3
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    Ryan

    I think this may be a subjective quantifier for some folks.
    I measure the quality of the cut in the variations of the statistical difference of the thickness of the re-sawn piece of material.
    In other words, If I want a 3/8" thick re-sawn piece of material, how close am I to .375 anywhere that I measure on that material when I am done. The wider the piece, the more difficult, simply due to being able to stabilize the material through the blade. I can generally keep the variations in thickness to less than .015 on wide sections and less than .010 on pieces that are less than the height of my fence, 6". If I had a power feeder, these numbers would be less. They come from changing my hand position.
    I don't worry to terribly much about the difference in the peaks and valleys of the kerf marks.These should be a reflection of blade quality and technique. I do have a dual drum sander to clean up after. Using the technique that you describe, I just checked some scraps in the pile and they're within .005, high to low.
    To be fair, my band saw is not european. It is an asian import from Rikon that I purchased in 2005. I use it only for resaw. It does nothing else and it took me a fair bit of time tuning it up when I first got it.
    In the absence of a power feeder, I don't think I can get much better by hand. A taller fence and a fingerboard stack might make the numbers better, but I just don't need to carry it that far.
    don't get finish ready off my band saw, but I can easily obtain result that would support a cold lamination, glue up.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  4. #4
    I own a Jet JWBS18. For resawing I've used Woodslicer, Lennox CT and Resaw King blades. I am most impressed by the Resaw King. I'm amazed at how smooth a cut I can get with it. So when it comes to comparing bandsaws, it would seem hard to make accurate comparisons unless the same blade is used in the testing.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the feedback guys, sounds like saw marks of .005" and cut variance of .015" are about normal. The whole reason a bigger bandsaw interested me is the thought of glue-ready pieces for laminated curves. I would expect you want your saw marks below .002" for this and if there was a bandsaw that could get me closer, my tool wishlist may get a bit longer .

  6. #6
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    There are too many variables. Besides the saw, there is the nature of the wood, the tooth count, sharpening expertise, and hand feeding technique and consistency. A blade with one tooth a little out of whack makes the cut look terrible when everything else is set up perfectly. Sneeze during the feeding and you have a ripple. Push a little hard and you can have a bow. Fence gets a little off and you have a wedge. A sander solves lots of problems. Dave

  7. #7
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    I also use the Resawking and wood master ct. The RK blade is a amazing blade if everything is right just a couple weeks ago I cut a slice off a piece of hard maple that looked like a sheet paper. This was just a test cut before i offered up the wood I had prepared. The surface from a RK blade is sometimes better then my tablesaw. It always changes with the different woods quality and thickness.
    Aj

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan J Carpenter View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys, sounds like saw marks of .005" and cut variance of .015" are about normal. The whole reason a bigger bandsaw interested me is the thought of glue-ready pieces for laminated curves. I would expect you want your saw marks below .002" for this and if there was a bandsaw that could get me closer, my tool wishlist may get a bit longer .
    Save the extra money you'd spend on the Euro saw and put it towards a drum sander. The drum sander is your friend. Then you can forget about two hundred dollar blades, and be truly happy.

  9. #9
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    First, I am not really sure you can rely on those measurements. The compressibility of wood and trying to measure the peaks and valleys of sawmarks sound like an exercise in frustration. I have never tried to quantify the surface of a resaw but the tactile and visual cues are easy enough to pick up.

    Good finish off the saw is a result of a sharp blade with either no set (Kerfmaster, Woodslicer et al) or one with brazed and sharpened teeth (Trimaster, Laguna RK et al) along with proper tension, excellent setup/tuning, and consistent feed rates.

    The saw/blade combination you are using will result in a nice finish until it dulls. A 1" RK or Trimaster at ~30k psi will beat it but not by a huge margin, they will just do it MANY times as long before they dull. If you want to get glue ready laminate cuts off the saw the recipe is pretty simple, saw capable of tensioning a 1" carbide blade to 30k psi (thats where old iron, some Euro saws*, and a limited number of Asian saws* some into play), tune the saw well and use a power feeder. The feeder is the key for getting the most out of the blade/saw finish wise. If your laminations strips aren't too wide (maybe up to 4-5") then a baby feeder is good enough and they benefit from variable speed to make up for any deficiency on horsepower. The is a youtube video done by a Canadian guy (Candian Woodwork or close is the channel but just search bandsaw power feeder and it will come up) who uses a baby feeder for just this purpose, IIRC he is using a MM20 and a Laguna RK blade.

    From a finish standpoint consistent feed is atleast as important as the blade and saw and thats where the feeder comes in.

    *#1 not all Euro saws are created equal
    *#2 Grizzly has a couple of saws capable of good tension on wider carbide blades and the Powermatic PM1500 and larger saws are very capable as well, the only issue is both approach or exceed the cost of the good Euro saws


    The cheaper solution is a drum sander but it just takes more time.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan J Carpenter View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys, sounds like saw marks of .005" and cut variance of .015" are about normal. The whole reason a bigger bandsaw interested me is the thought of glue-ready pieces for laminated curves. I would expect you want your saw marks below .002" for this and if there was a bandsaw that could get me closer, my tool wishlist may get a bit longer .
    For laminated curves under 3" wide I've sawn 1/8" veneers on my 10" cabinet saw. With the right set-up and blade you get glue-up ready veneers.

    Your right on bandsaws being harder to quantify Ryan. I went down a similar path and it took awhile to get the results I wanted.

    On my 21" Grizzly bandsaw I get similar smoothness to resawing with my tablesaw. The smoothest faced veneers I've sawn so far were 8" wide. I use an older (sharp) 1"resawking tensioned to 1-1/8" on my saws scale. I can saw 3/32" veneers that are ready to glue down right off the saw. No jointing or planing after each veneer is sawn. The bookmatched faces are uniform in thickness and ready for 100 grit RO sanding.
    On the bandsaw I use a fast continuous hand feed rate without stopping. As fast as I can push. Faster feeds produce smoother faces with my set-up. Stopping or slowing down causes rough deeper saw marks.

    On both table and band saw I use 2 fences, both are well waxed. One is locked. The other is moved over snug to the stock after each cut and acts like a feather board.
    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t - you’re right."
    - Henry Ford

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    From a finish standpoint consistent feed is atleast as important as the blade and saw and thats where the feeder comes in.

    *#1 not all Euro saws are created equal
    *#2 Grizzly has a couple of saws capable of good tension on wider carbide blades and the Powermatic PM1500 and larger saws are very capable as well, the only issue is both approach or exceed the cost of the good Euro saws

    The cheaper solution is a drum sander but it just takes more time.
    But for a _good_quality_ bent lamination, aren't you just going to have to put it through the drum sander anyway? Yes there are ways around it, but those ways take up even more time than that.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Dawson View Post
    But for a _good_quality_ bent lamination, aren't you just going to have to put it through the drum sander anyway? Yes there are ways around it, but those ways take up even more time than that.
    With the correct setup you do not need to sand laminations. The key here is the cost in money for a hobbyists likely outweighs the time saved. With a feeder and a good variable pitch carbide resaw blade you can get near tablesaw quality faces.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  13. #13
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    Note on bandsaw feeders...... A medium bandsaw feeder (true bandsaw feeder, not a typical shaper style feeder) needs a large table to mount on correctly. One sized like a 24" minimax size table or better. That or you are adding an extension of some kind. They also weigh in around 100lbs. Check the manual before you try adding that to a smaller saw.

  14. #14
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    I have been using my Aggazzani 20” with a 1” carbide blade for resawing for over 10 years(original setup and blade).
    For me, resawing has never been about precision. Resawing gets me close to the desired thickness. Everything I resaw goes through a planer or widebelt. That is where I care about precision and surface quality.

  15. #15
    i use a standard carbon blade with side grind

    here is how you do the side grind

    jack
    English machines

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