Felder FD-250 - Building a fence - thoughts

[Brian Holcombe]

Looking to group source some thoughts on this so that I can form a consensus on how to approach this issue.

I have a Felder FD-250 slot mortiser, I'm making the conversion on it to a square chisel, which requires the square chisel holder that bolts to the motor. It also includes another handle for the machine with pinions and racks for driving the chisel forward.

My debate is in regard to the fence, there is not much of a factory solution available and so I'm considering sourcing cast iron, aluminum or extruded aluminum to build a sturdy fence which will back the part being mortised (along with a sacrificial bit of wood).

In the experience of the crowd, which of the below solutions would be best; all of them are comparably priced.

- cast iron I can source 1" x 4" thick material by 24" long. I have the capability of machining from rough stock to form square sides. I'll then build some arrangement for easy bracketing to the machine. The machine does make this easy by having a ledge and groove around the entire table. This is 24lbs.

- aluminum I can source 1.5" x 4" by 24. It's 15lbs Same deal as above.

- Finally VSCT offers a machined extrusion that looks pretty heavy, only specs I see on it are that it is 48" long. I'm curious if this is a reasonable approach as I can more easily create stops with this but I'm very curious to know if it would actually survive use as a backup for mortising or if it will deflect.

Any of the above will be easy to use, as the guide I create will have a permanently oiled bronze strip embedded and handles to make it easy to move even a fairly heavy bit of cast iron.

Appreciate your thoughts on best approach.

[Rod Sheridan]

I would use aluminum rectangular tubing.....Regards, Rod.

[Patrick Walsh]

Cast iron,

Some kind of machined up brackets with kipp levers to attach the fence to the left and right channels in the machines tables, also the back channel.

So like four attachment points total with kipp levers. The ones off the back of the fence should travel in a slot so the fence can move forward and back as to adjust for table or mortise depth. You could do the same with just a mount on the left and right sides mounted to the left and right side channels in the tables but imop the additional mounts off the back of the fence will add more security so things don’t move around.

Even with air clamps my biggest gripe with that machine is my workpiece moving around or the machine vibrating on the floor aiding in a crappy cut. Or bit whip...

[Brian Holcombe]

I haven't considered aluminum tubing because I plan to cut t-slot grooves into whatever material I end up using.

Patrick,

That sounds like exactly what I have in mind, especially about the Kipp levers. I plan to make it so that the sides grip very strongly, so as to avoid using the back at all. I'm concerned that using the back will create a possible structural issue in the table, like tearing the back ledge off in an extreme case, or cracking it under hard use.

Vibrating on the floor drives me nuts, I've been considering filling the base with some type of ballast, the machine is under weight in my opinion. The heavier German machines tend to be about 650-770lbs, where this one weighs in at 480lbs. So ballast and a heavy fence will put it closer to the typical range and cut down on the some of the skipping around on the floor.

[Patrick Walsh]

There was and still may be a Kolle for sale on woodweb.

If I hadn't been going so nuts spending on machines and tools as of late I’d buy it. I gotta stop now till I pay off the jointer.

The Felder machines are nice enough but they really do need to be heavier. Even if just some random added weight on their part.

One of our old SCMI shapers at work has a concrete weight bolted into one corner. I assume it’s from the factory like this as it does not look jury rigged. I know Martin machines are filled with some proprietary cement.

Do t know why I never thought to add weight to the machine?

How much is the square chisel stuff costing from Felder. I don’t mind cleaning my corners but the bit whip drives me nuts. I find myself making very long mortise fairly regularly for like a breadboard end type application and over say 1-4 ft the mortise really gets quite sloppy.

Eager to see what you come up with..

[Brian Holcombe]

It was $940 for the square chisel kit parts and I haven't bought chisels yet, which will be about $250. I plan to buy Fisch imperial sized bits so that I can tool slave. Hopefully they work in the bit holder, I don't know if they will.

I eliminated the majority of bit whip (when using the bird's mouth bit) by changing the cutting direction to 'left' turning, the whip is considerably reduced.

A concrete weight is a good idea, I thought off simply pouring concrete but I'm not really sure how that would go.

[Patrick Walsh]

Yikes.

Another $940!

Think I’ll just have a Wadkin or Robinson shipped over from the UK.

I’ll try reversing my spindle. I’m running a vfd and am no longer connected to the power on off or spindle direction knob. Tbh I never even looked to see if the machine had one. I know my Felder shaper does.

Hmmm..

How is the combo machine. I have a friend considering one and going back and forth between that and a Felder. I keep telling him go Scmi.

Also have year head boo from So in say the last six months?

[Brian Holcombe]

Indeed, I have not been thrilled by the expense of this add-on. However, given the options available it seemed worthwhile to take my chances on this machine rather than to bring in another machine which will of course have it's own set of issues. Some of those older English machines are really wonderful looking, but anytime I buy something used and older than 20yrs or so, I proceed with the expectation that it's going to be an in-depth restoration. The minimax lathe, for example.

The combo machine is good, I prepped 200bf of Ash with it last week, working beautifully. I added Aigner tables to not long ago and it's nice to have the extra table length.

We were emailing back and forth for a bit a few weeks back.

[Van Huskey]

It was $940 for the square chisel kit parts and I haven't bought chisels yet,

I actually came back to this thread to ask what the cost was, my gears had been turning since I read the OP last night when I read this let's just say a monkey wrench got dropped into the gears...

[Van Huskey]

The Felder machines are nice enough but they really do need to be heavier. Even if just some random added weight on their part.

One of our old SCMI shapers at work has a concrete weight bolted into one corner. I assume it’s from the factory like this as it does not look jury rigged. I know Martin machines are filled with some proprietary cement.

When I read the first line I immediately thought that maybe Felder should cross the border and buy some of that special German concrete, then you beat me to it.

[David Kumm]

I understand the reason for not adding machines but my FD 250 sits most of the time. Bacci for slot mortises and Maka for square edged ones. Neither cost as much as the FD. Dave

[Brian Holcombe]

Van,

I was looking at it closely yesterday, I am wondering the best way to add ballast.

I understand the reason for not adding machines but my FD 250 sits most of the time. Bacci for slot mortises and Maka for square edged ones. Neither cost as much as the FD. Dave

It does not end up being redundant for me as a Maka will not cut a square hole, only rectangles and does require setup beyond that of the hollow chisel. So, even if this ends up in limited use in the future, it will still be quite useful. I do have designs on a Maka, but I have a few other things that I want first.

[David Kumm]

Brian, I hear you. I have a Fay and Egan for square holes. Iron disease. DaveDSCN3600.jpgDSCN3601.jpg

[Mike Heidrick]

All square chisel setups ive used have the chisel and auger as a set. Not the case here?

For a $940 add on i would have a second machine for sure and an upright one.

I did dig out my Laguna slot mortiser today. It awaits cleanup and a ride to the new shed.

[Patrick Walsh]

I agree,

I know we have been through this before Brian and I understand your reasons for your decision.

I can’t help but still feel your solution is in the link below. Do it once, do it right and get it over with. ‘

Machine in link will require jumping through hoops with regard to electricity with your residential single phase but it will not require and mucking with as many machines it’s age would.

https://www.scosarg.com/used-wadkin-...rtiser-rebuilt

All square chisel setups ive used have the chisel and auger as a set. Not the case here?

For a $940 add on i would have a second machine for sure and an upright one.

I did dig out my Laguna slot mortiser today. It awaits cleanup and a ride to the new shed.