Help choosing tools for new shop

[John Halsted]

I considered posting this in the workshops forum, but since I'm mostly just looking for advice on tools right now, I'll post here:

I have a 24x30' insulated and heated garage that I want to turn into a functioning workshop. I've had the garage for 2.5 years now but just haven't had to time to really hunker down and figure things out. Besides owning a small electronics business, I also own 5 properties within a one block area (rental properties). For the last 3 years I've bought one house per year, and there is an expectation that this will continue. I've done substantial renovation work to each house, and I own duplicates and sometimes triplicates of contractor grade tools. However, I don't really own any proper furniture grade tools, and that is a problem. I don't even own a jointer or dust collector. I had to make a custom pine door for a renovation project recently I was still using the Bosch contractor table saw that I used to store out on my porch in the snow 10 years ago, and straightening boards with a hand plane.

So, what I'd like to ask here is, what scale power tools can I get into without things getting too crowded in my space? I don't think I want to draw out a final shop layout or anything that specific yet, and I think to some extent I'll need to keep things at least somewhat mobile so I can move things around and figure out how I want it (maybe I need to buy a pallet jack). So I would like to get a real table saw, jointer, planer, dust collector, etc... I work with a lot of sheet goods - should I get a sliding table saw and how big? I really want a big jointer and planer - I've been looking at the Felder AD 951, but jointer/planer combos just seem kind of delicate (though I've never played with one in person). I'm very attracted to the idea of working with large wide slabs of lumber.

I was thinking of buying some type of mobile dust collector, as least to help me get by for a while as it could take a long time before I have real ducting. I was thinking about something like the Laguna or Jet 3hp units on casters.

A workshop with better tools will benefit my renovation projects, but this should probably be considered largely a hobby expense. I don't have any particular financial limitations, but I am a naturally frugal person. I just want to get good value, and if I'm going to splurge, I'd like to at least think that whatever I'm buying will hold value.

I have storage in two smaller garages nearby so my 24x30' space will not be bothered by lawn tools and bicycles and other nonsense, but I am thinking of adding a 3x10' bathroom to the garage some day. I also have a flat paved space about 24' square outside of the 17' garage door, so a big project could extend outside if needed. One limitation right now is that the garage only has 60A service (heat is gas), but I can see upgrading that at some point. Oh, and ceiling height is only 100", which I'm tempted to change by raising the roof but then I remind myself that this would be a bit nuts. I could also see building a larger shop some day on one of my lots, but that would be years down the road.

Anyways, thanks for throwing any ideas my way!

[Bernie May]

John-
Too many questions for us to address. It seems you have the space, the interest, and the funding to do what you want. I would suggest getting a few books on designing workshops (ex. Smart Workshop Solutions, Workshop Idea Book, Setting Up Shop were all ones I used). Also start reading this forum more. Search the forum for past threads on all of your questions. There is a wealth of knowledge available. It is easier for us to address a single targeted question.
-bernie

[Van Huskey]

You will get far more useful input by starting a different thread for each question. The dust collection, electricity, ceiling height etc questions go in the Workshop sub forum and then the machine questions here.

When discussing machines it also helps to have a budget and when you are equipping a whole new shop that takes some serious thought.

Start working on the plan a piece at the time and ask specific individual questions as they become salient to your overall design.

[Robert Engel]

Right forum/format or not, I'll take a shot!

Before getting into specifics, I will say my opinions/suggestions come from >25 years of experience and I still have a lot to learn!!

I'll start by saying if you're planning on getting into some serious high level ww'ing, then buy high level, serious tools. I can tell you low end equipment and tools are not good for skill development and frustrations will soar as you struggle with projects due to inaccurate machines that won't hold settings or, are flat out dangerous to use (at least that was the case with me). Probably stating the obvious to you, but there are a lot of guys that start out that way and it doesn't work too well.

I think the basic 4 are table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw.

1) Tablesaw: I wouldn't mess around and go straight to a 3hp cabinet saw. I promise you'll end up with one anyway one day ;-) Take your pick of brands I think you will be satisfied with all of them. That being said, If you think you will have a production shop or deal with alot of sheet goods, and really want a magnificent machine, then a Felder sliding table saw is the ultimate, IMO. The large footprint is a consideration.

2) Jointer: 8" minimum. Spiral head nice but not mandatory. Once again, any of the major brands will all do.

3) Planer: You can get by with 12 but minimum 15" is minimum. Spiral head preferred. Go 20-24" if the budget allows and you want to get into wider boards or small slabs. I would not be averse to a combo jointer/planer for not other reason than having a 12" jointer is never a bad thing.

4) Bandsaw if you're buying 1 machine, I would look at a larger one like a 17". This will cover resawing plus the normal work. Personally I have a 19" and a 12" set up different ways. Very, very handy.

Dust Collection: Like everything else, lots of opinions but I think you simply can't go wrong with a proprietary unit like the Laguna. However, check Matt Cremonas YouTube channel he has some info on that unit. Personally, I wouldn't be too happy with that amount of dust passing the cyclone, but maybe thats normal. You will quickly become tired of moving the DC around to every machine, so I would plan on a ducted system.

I'd be looking at a $10-12K budget if you go this route. And you haven't bought any hand tools yet....LOL.

[Bryan Lisowski]

If I was starting over, I would buy the Hammer or Felder 16" combo machine. As for table saw, a good cabinet saw and a track saw will work good for hardwoods and sheet goods. I would get 2 bandsaws, a 14" and 20". As for DC I would go 5hp. Plus you will probably need a router table or shaper. I would think you would also want to upgrade the electrical to at least 100 amps.

[glenn bradley]

I'm in a 20' x 30' space and have the water heater, washer/dryer, three 24" x 40" storage cabinets, vertical wood storage, horizontal wood storage, workbench, assembly table and then tools and machines. I do not have a luxurious amount of room and would not balk at an extra 20' of width but, I can comfortably make dressers, tables, wall cabinets, hutches and the like.

For machines I have a cabinet saw with 52" rails, a router table, drill press, two bandsaws, spindle/disc sander, oscillating edge sander, drum sander, 15" planer, 8" jointer, two dust collectors, two shop vacs, scroll saw and so forth. Nearly every machine that came on a stand or cabinet that did not provide storage was moved onto a drawer-filled cabinet. I have a wall hanging till for planes and other hand tools, I have drawers under the work bench and clamps on the walls.

I'm not trying to just rattle off inventory. My point is that you can put a lot of power at your finger tips in that amount of space if you plan a bit. Use high wall areas for lumber or other infrequent use storage. Put drawers in everything. Make some item mobile; for example my jointer, planer and drum sander can all occupy an area in front of my router table at one time or another.

I generally use the jointer and planer together and then roll the planer out of the way to use the drum sander. The jointer stores against the wall under the horizontal lumber storage and is usable in that position for smaller stock. Dust collection is piped to fixed machines and stubs with blast gates serve mobile machines through quick-couple hoses. The same DC gated port serves my planer, drum sander and router table fence as required. Another port serves the jointer or the edge sander as required.

Think outside the box and have fun with it.

P.s. I run all of this except the lights on a 50 amp fed sub-panel.

[Jim Becker]

My shop is "generally" 22x30. I have a sliding table saw, a J/P combo, a CNC machine, a big bandsaw and several other things in there. My cyclone and compressor are in a closet.

What types of projects you intend to make is going to influence what you equip yourself with for tools, but in general you do have adequate space to have some flexibility there. IMHO, of course.

[Andrew Joiner]

A workshop with better tools will benefit my renovation projects, but this should probably be considered largely a hobby expense. I don't have any particular financial limitations, but I am a naturally frugal person. I just want to get good value, and if I'm going to splurge, I'd like to at least think that whatever I'm buying will hold value.

I was a professional woodworker and landlord for many years. I'm frugal and value oriented too. After I retired I lost interest in woodworking for a while, and traveled. I eventually fell in love with a woman and the Columbia River Gorge area. I built a house so I wanted a shop to do the interior and furniture.
I was looking at a shop more at a hobby level. This was a challenge for a former pro who had pro grade machines. I started out slow and simple even though I had enough cash to buy any new machines I wanted. I was surprised at the level of quality work I could do with less than "industrial tools".
What do plan to build? Do you have hardwood yards that will give you wholesale prices and service? My machine recommendations would vary depending on that.
I was in a big city with my commercial shop and my lumber wholesalers offered S3S lumber for a slight up charge. It was way cheaper to pay them to do it than use my jointer. Maybe you enjoy the handplane work?

[John Halsted]

It did occur to me that asking about individual tools might deserve individual threads. I'll try to route some of my more specific inquiries into new threads. In the meantime I really appreciate the types of comments about what people have tended toward and were able to fit into certain spaces. That's the kind of information that isn't immediately obvious until after you've been building up and using a shop for many years. Having been a carpenter for over 12 years, I know quite a bit, but my work and tools move around a lot, which is very different than having a fixed space.

I realize that to some extent I might end up buying and selling tools, but the closer you can predict what you're going to want in the end, the less painful that process will be. All of my contractor grade tools pretty much get used until they die and I've learned it is never a bad idea to have multiples because if something breaks mid-renovation it really puts you in a bind.

Regarding materials, sheet goods are readily available at anytime from stores, and I tend to keep 10-20 sheets of 4x8 whatever on hand at all times in my garage. As I get into solid wood projects, I would like to be working primarily with my own milled lumber, which I can store and dry in one of my other garages (I already have a good pile going).

I think the basic 4 are table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw.

1) Tablesaw: I wouldn't mess around and go straight to a 3hp cabinet saw. I promise you'll end up with one anyway one day ;-) Take your pick of brands I think you will be satisfied with all of them. That being said, If you think you will have a production shop or deal with alot of sheet goods, and really want a magnificent machine, then a Felder sliding table saw is the ultimate, IMO. The large footprint is a consideration.

2) Jointer: 8" minimum. Spiral head nice but not mandatory. Once again, any of the major brands will all do.

3) Planer: You can get by with 12 but minimum 15" is minimum. Spiral head preferred. Go 20-24" if the budget allows and you want to get into wider boards or small slabs. I would not be averse to a combo jointer/planer for not other reason than having a 12" jointer is never a bad thing.

4) Bandsaw if you're buying 1 machine, I would look at a larger one like a 17". This will cover resawing plus the normal work. Personally I have a 19" and a 12" set up different ways. Very, very handy.

Dust Collection: Like everything else, lots of opinions but I think you simply can't go wrong with a proprietary unit like the Laguna. However, check Matt Cremonas YouTube channel he has some info on that unit. Personally, I wouldn't be too happy with that amount of dust passing the cyclone, but maybe thats normal. You will quickly become tired of moving the DC around to every machine, so I would plan on a ducted system.

I'd be looking at a $10-12K budget if you go this route. And you haven't bought any hand tools yet....LOL.

1) No, I don't plan on messing around :P I feel much more comfortable with an American style saw, since that's what I'm used to, but I can't deny the number of people who rave about their sliding saws. I saw someone posted a 5hp 10' slider in the classifieds here for $5k. Seems pretty big though.

2) I actually ordered an 8" jointer last year to get started (new, spiral, for $1k), then after a few months the order was cancelled. Lead times on bigger tools is very frustrating. I'd probably own a bunch of Grizzly stuff right now if it was actually in stock.

3) I have a 12" lunchbox that I really don't like.

4) I have an 18" bandsaw, which is actually one of two tools that I actually spent some money on (the other is my Voyager DVR 18 In. Drill Press). I do already see the need for something smaller that can properly hold a 1/8" blade.

5) I did watch Matt Cremona's videos on the Laguna dust collector, and the disappointing cyclone separation is the reason I haven't bought one. Though I do feel that keeping most of my tools mobile for a few years will really be helpful. I'll start on a new thread on this.

$10-12K budget? I was thinking I'd have to spend a lot more than that. I don't need anymore hand tools, except to maybe further increase my clamp collection.

[Charlie Hinton]

Pretty solid recommendations have been given.
I would keep everything on wheels, there may be a perfect shop layout but wheels make it easy to change things around.
The Matt Cremona review of the 3hp Laguna dust collector is about as real world as it gets.
Based off the demonstrated performance of that machine it's kinda hard to plunk down that kind of money unless ceiling height comes into play.

[Jim Becker]

You have a lot of options for sure....everything from "old iron" stuff all the way through a Euro combination machine and all kinds of places in-between. That's the good news along with the fact that your shop is of reasonable size to support larger tools while still leaving some open space for assembly and finishing. Work flow is why I mentioned "what do you want to do" in my previous response since that affects tool choice and space required.

On the cyclone, "short cone" cyclones inherently don't separate as well as larger, long-cone cyclones. Nature of the beast. There's a large amount of dust collection discussion in the Workshops area when DC is relegated.

[Jacob Mac]

I would look at saving space wherever you can. So even if you had room for a separate jointer and planer, consider a combination machine. Consider putting the router table into your table saw, etc. I find it nice to have everything consolidated so I still have room for finishing, assembling etc.

Another advantage to having your tools consolidated like that is you don't have to walk all over the shop to machine your wood. It also leaves space for nice to have tools like drum sander, floor mortiser, roubo workbench, etc. If your work could benefit from those type of tools.

[Rick Potter]

I have been in your situation, having completely renovated/remodeled eight rentals. I am going to assume you will be using the shop for hobby use, as well as building kitchens, etc for the rentals.

Going with Robert's suggestion of the four basic tools, I would immediately add a track saw, a workbench, and a large assembly table (maybe double duty as outfeed table). Make all the tools/tables/benches/auxiliary roll arounds the same height, and put wheels on as appropriate.

Mix well, and supplement other items as needed.

EDIT: You will find you need a way to do quick accurate crosscuts, other than the table saw. I have a RAS and a track saw, but a sliding miter saw, a squaring jig for a track saw, or a small sliding table saw will all work well. Again, I am assuming you will be doing cabinets for various rentals, and need to cross cut 24-36" panels. I used to have an Excalibur slider for my Unisaw and it did the job well also.

Hope this helps

[Andrew Joiner]

If you regularly work with 4x8 sheets look into vertical panel saws.

I had a Safety Speed Cut vertical panel saw and a Powermatic 66 in my commercial shop. Now in my hobby shop I have the Shop Fox version of the Grizzly G1023RL and a home made vertical panel saw.

In a one person shop a vertical panel saw works well. It's easy to store sheet stock on edge and slide it right thru the saw with less lifting. I can't envision how one person can load and cut 4x8 sheets on a euro slider. Maybe with forklifts, lift tables or vacuum lifts. Even the then sliding or dropping sheets on their faces tends to scratch them.