We Build Things Different Here

[Julie Moriarty]

Our neighbors razed their house and are building a new one. There are some things they do here they don't do up north when building houses, like lay tons of rebar and build with cinder block. But when it comes to concrete and brick or block walls, I don't think those rules change.

We've had a lot of rain lately. The footing trenches looked like rivers. When they poured the footings, many of the trenches were still filled with water. Up north, that weakens the concrete.

Up north, once any concrete structure is poured, you have to wait a minimum of 7 days before loading it with anything. Yesterday, two days after pouring the footing, they were laying block. When the neighbor stopped by, I asked her how high they were going. "All the way I hope!" I told her typically you only lay 4 feet in a day. "We build things different here," she said.

[Mike Cutler]

Different doesn't necessarily mean better.

[Stan Calow]

Maybe so they're easier to raze.

[Tom M King]

I have actually earned this t-shirt.

[Frederick Skelly]

Yup, sounds pretty crappily built.

Sounds like you were careful in how you raised it, Julie. Thanks for being considerate like that - not everyone is. We had a guy from Colorado that just wouldn't shut up about how much better it was there. So one day I suggested very bluntly that he move back, if was so crappy here. He didn't much care for that. But it gets old.

[Marshall Harrison]

Different doesn't necessarily mean better.

Different doesn't necessarily mean worse either.

[Mike Cutler]

Different doesn't necessarily mean worse either.

Very true my friend. It just means different. It all depends on the building codes.
My response was more flippant than I intended. Apologies.

[Patrick Walsh]

I would say in this case sounds like different did mean crap...

[Marshall Harrison]

Very true my friend. It just means different. It all depends on the building codes.
My response was more flippant than I intended. Apologies.

No apologies necessary.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I moved to PA in 1998 from an area that had very strict building codes to an area that was just talking about getting a building code. Contractors were not licensed and anybody with a $300 station wagon was a home improvement contractor. I handled a few construction cases over the years and knew a precious little about code requirements. The glaring errors and shoddy stuff I saw was just mind bending. I saw brand new house roofs with sway backs within 2 years. Saw guys high nailing shingles, back fill outer grade above the wooden frame sill etc. Even major builders were doing things I knew was wrong. Steps without railings, closets too shallow to use full size clothes hangers, door sills so off level that you could see daylight under one corner of the door. Then PA finally got a building code AND required contractors to be licensed and bonded. Suddenly there were not enough building inspectors and every college kid that could not get a job took a weekend course and instantly became a construction inspector/expert. Suddenly any out of the ordinary building method was being rejected. One fellow down the road built a straw bale work shop. No way would they approve it. After almost a year of arguments, he changed the name of the building to an equipment shed and then it was alright and approved for agricultural use only. He still operates his shop in it. I have also seen post and beam construction joints that were approved but were far too weak to hold the loads placed on them. Part of the building collapsed after a snow fall. My neighbor had a deck built by a contractor. It is 12 ft by 20 ft and the side away from the house foundation is held up by too few 4 x 4's. The code inspector did catch it and failed it pending the replacement of the supports. The contractor also only put a 30 inch high railing around the deck. That is no where near high enough for what I would want. Don't know what code is.

[Jerome Stanek]

I used to install CVS drug store fixtures and casework and I ended up having to get a contractors license for West Virginia to work there. Years before I did remodels for Revco drug Stores and when I was in West Virginia anything went. I was surprised at how things changed in just a few years.

[Julie Moriarty]

Some of the construction methods here are certainly different than in the Chicago area but, as has been said, that doesn't mean one is better than the other.

When it comes to water in the footing trench however, it always means weaker concrete, everywhere on the planet. But if you pour the concrete stiff enough and there isn't a lot of water, the presence of water may not be an issue. However, when you use a pumper, you can't have a really stiff mix. That being said, unless you do a compression test, you will never know the strength of the concrete. I didn't see any samples set aside. You see that all the time on commercial sites but almost never on residential sites.

I think my neighbor's comment about laying all the block in one day was just she didn't know or she misunderstood me. Her husband is a builder and she's heavily involved and on the building sites a lot so I thought she would know. I know she's anxious to get the house built. She's been talking about it for years.

Since the block was laid, there has been no additional courses added. Maybe practices here see the first few courses of block to be one with the footing. If a week goes by before they load the stem walls, then maybe the two are considered one when it comes to curing.

Today they are filling the voids in the block where rebar protrudes. They took a lot of care to make sure the rebar ended up dead center in the fill. I always see care taken as a good sign. No other work is being done. At first I thought the 5 courses of block included wall that would be above the floor level. But pockets cut out in the block on the 5th course tell me they stopped laying block at the first floor level, about 40" above grade. If they will wait the week, fill under the slab and and pour it, then begin laying block again, I guess that means the footing and first few courses of block are considered one unit.

[Jerome Stanek]

Some of the construction methods here are certainly different than in the Chicago area but, as has been said, that doesn't mean one is better than the other.

When it comes to water in the footing trench however, it always means weaker concrete, everywhere on the planet. But if you pour the concrete stiff enough and there isn't a lot of water, the presence of water may not be an issue. However, when you use a pumper, you can't have a really stiff mix. That being said, unless you do a compression test, you will never know the strength of the concrete. I didn't see any samples set aside. You see that all the time on commercial sites but almost never on residential sites.

I think my neighbor's comment about laying all the block in one day was just she didn't know or she misunderstood me. Her husband is a builder and she's heavily involved and on the building sites a lot so I thought she would know. I know she's anxious to get the house built. She's been talking about it for years.

Since the block was laid, there has been no additional courses added. Maybe practices here see the first few courses of block to be one with the footing. If a week goes by before they load the stem walls, then maybe the two are considered one when it comes to curing.

Today they are filling the voids in the block where rebar protrudes. They took a lot of care to make sure the rebar ended up dead center in the fill. I always see care taken as a good sign. No other work is being done. At first I thought the 5 courses of block included wall that would be above the floor level. But pockets cut out in the block on the 5th course tell me they stopped laying block at the first floor level, about 40" above grade. If they will wait the week, fill under the slab and and pour it, then begin laying block again, I guess that means the footing and first few courses of block are considered one unit.

Funny you should mention Chicago because when I went there to install CVS's the electricians Told me this is Chicago and we do things right. They did not want to use the cabling that came with the fixture they wanted to run their own even though it was up to code according to the inspector. The carpenters union didn't want to acknowledge our national agreement either had to call our local and have them explain it to them that if Chicago would not acknowledge us then Cleveland's would deny the carpenters that were working on the Rock and Roll hall of fame. Boy did that change their minds.

[Art Mann]

It is often necessary in bridge building to pour concrete entirely under water. I have been told it hardens more slowly but is stronger when submerged. I don't know if that is the material they were using in this case but it isn't necessarily compromising quality.

[Bill Dufour]

I grew up in California and I have never seen a foundation other then poured concrete with rebar. Yes they do build commercial buildings with block but the foundations are poured in place to above grade level.
They quit making block houses after the 1950's. Most block houses I have seen are small and cheap looking. I think they dropped them when they started to insulate the walls in the 1960's. I have seen a few mansions made of cast in place concrete in California made in the 1920's -30's. All of those that I know about where made by concrete contractors or paving companiesnot really home builders as such.
Of course there are those oddball older ones where they just laid two redwood logs down in the dirt and called that a foundation. The house next to use was built during the depression. the guy just laid red brick down on the ground. then put redwood 6x6 on top and that was his foundation. It lasted for about 50 years before it burned and they tore it down.
Bill D