Arm R Seal extremely cloudy/hazy

[Mike Gresham]

I'm certainly not a finishing expert, so take this as MHO. I have used ARS satin and Seal-A-Cell on several projects. It is so thin out of the can that I never considered thinning it. It requires frequent stirring to keep the flatteners in suspension. IMHO, the MS has thinned it to the point that something is going sideways as it drys. Just as an FYI, it usually takes 3 coats and sometimes 4 to get a satisfactory finish. I don't know if you can fix it at this point without stripping the ARS. Oh, and I rag it on.

[Andrew Goraj]

But thinned only 10% you would think would just take a little longer to build. Not completely change it's ability to form a film. I had already applied 3 coats of ARS. So this makes 7 with the most recent 4. In addition, this table had a few coats of enduro clear poly sprayed on it too! Albeit that was sanded down before preceding with the ARS. I'll set the table ablaze before I ever strip it at this point. Just can't put any more time into starting over. And my wife is sick of hearing about the drama. She said it's been a roller coaster ride. Haha.

Man.. tried to save a few bucks for a friend and dye some poplar.

[Andrew Goraj]

Well. USPS just dropped off another quart ! Good timing. I guess I'll try one or two more, with the new can.

[John TenEyck]

This is indeed strange. But let's clear up a few misconceptions. ARS is has low viscosity (thin) but not low solids. The solids is about 35%, the same as Waterlox and P&L38. It's thin because it's formulated that way to make it easy to wipe on. I've thinned it several times with 25% MS to make it easier to apply to a large surface before it started to set up (and streak) and worked fine. This was 3 or 4 brushed on coats thinned 25% then a couple of more wiped on.




Whatever is happening with your table Andrew is very strange. I've never had a bad can of any GF product, but it sounds a lot like what you have could be. I would take your new can and apply 3 or 4 coats to a piece of scrap so you know what it's supposed to look like and to confirm it's good. I would get a new can of mineral spirits, too, to be on the safe side. 100% pure mineral spirits. When you are satisfied in your raw materials and how to apply it to your satisfaction on scrap I would sand down the table top until it's dead flat again. Then I would spray it with a coat of Sealcoat or rattle can shellac. That will seal in whatever is there so there will be no incompatibility with the ARS. Now build up the new finish. It shouldn't take more than 3 brushed on coats and one or two wiped on.

IIRC, you are using gloss, right? If so, there is no issue with the flatters causing the problem you are having because there are none, or shouldn't have been.

John

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

I am thinking it is your mineral spirits. Depending on the brand (especially the low odor formulations) I have had problems.

[Andrew Goraj]

Thanks for the replies. I almost never blame the MFG. I find it's almost always user error. But after having problems with a brand new gun that Fuji couldn't fix when I way trying to spray for this top, I now think it's possible this table might be bad voodoo! This stuff is straight forward from what I read. So I'll take the new can and see what happens. I'll follow along with some test pieces too. I'm just glad to hear this is odd. I also am wondering if this MS could be the problem. It says 100% pure. Even though it's low odor. I'll look for a new brand though.

[Andrew Goraj]

Good info btw John. I didn't know that. And nice table !

[Andrew Goraj]

Aright. Two threads later. Over a quart of ARS, one Fuji gun and 1/4 gallon of enduro clear poly. A sad, but appropriate ending. I tried the new can. No luck. Honesty this table is so ugly IMO at this point I think it needs to be retired anyways. I'm going to try johns advice and sand it down. If I can get through it quick enough, I'll try it again with a unified approach sticking with one product for the topcoat. If not, I'm going to rip it down and run it through the planer for table aprons. Thanks for the help! I learned a ton. If I can by chance sand this down and save it, I'll give an update.

[Andrew Goraj]

What brand mineral spirits do you guys recommend to mix with the ARS?

On a side not. I just bought a new Bosch 6"
Sander with turbo mode. It brought the table back down to bare wood in a half hour! Absolutely fantastic sander.

[Andrew Goraj]

Well, two threads later, one Fuji gun, my pride, half a gallon of enduro clear poly, a lot of dye stain, 40BDFT of Poplar, and over a quart of Arm R seal, I'm putting an end to this monstrosity.The new can of Arm R Seal didn't help. There just is way too many variable here to continue. I bought a new Bosch orbital sander that has "Turbo mode". It sanded the top down within half an hour, I was really blown away. I may just cut this up and use it for aprons anyways though, I think I might be done experimenting for a while. I learned a lot, so I appreciate all of the help.

Moving forward, what mineral spirits do you guys use to mix your ARS? I still want to give ARS a try on a properly prepared piece, and compare it to my hardwax oils.

[Phil Mueller]

I’ve always had good success with ARS. I’ve followed the process on this video and it’s never failed me.

https://youtu.be/iPtoPBMbAP8

Are you sanding between coats and then cleaning the sanding dust off well? Frankly, I wouldn’t thin it at all, but other have and it’s apparently been fine. I know how frustrating finishing can be at times. I do hope it goes well this time around.

[Andrew Goraj]

Funny, I just watched this video last night. I was wiping the scuff sanding dust off meticulously. I just experimented way too much with this top for it to turn out successful. Do you wipe on like this even for large tables? Say 8ft without thinning?

[Phil Mueller]

The largest I’ve done is about 48”. I don’t thin. I do just as the video shows...just keep dipping the folded up rag and wiping it on, then a very light final wipe with the grain (just the weight of the rag). If you notice a dull spot, or missed spot, or streak, just walk away. I use a finer grit between coats than he uses; 800-1000 - just enough to take off any nibs, wipe well with DNA and repeat. After sanding, I do look at it carefully under a light to ensure I haven’t left scratches or streaks. It will likely dry dull in places the first few coats, then you’ll start to see a much better shine coats 3+. I usually go 5 applications.

I guess the point is I hope you don’t get turned off of ARS. After sanding off a variety of botched finishes in my time, I’ve found ARS to be a relatvely easy finish with (typically!) good results.

[John TenEyck]

Well, two threads later, one Fuji gun, my pride, half a gallon of enduro clear poly, a lot of dye stain, 40BDFT of Poplar, and over a quart of Arm R seal, I'm putting an end to this monstrosity.The new can of Arm R Seal didn't help. There just is way too many variable here to continue. I bought a new Bosch orbital sander that has "Turbo mode". It sanded the top down within half an hour, I was really blown away. I may just cut this up and use it for aprons anyways though, I think I might be done experimenting for a while. I learned a lot, so I appreciate all of the help.

Moving forward, what mineral spirits do you guys use to mix your ARS? I still want to give ARS a try on a properly prepared piece, and compare it to my hardwax oils.

Why give up now? If you've got it down to bare wood give it another go. Sand to 180 grit, vacuum off, dye, optional sealer, then ARS. It really isn't and shouldn't be complicated. Do it all on scrap first.

I use KleanStrip Paint Thinner to thin ARS most of the time. I've never really worried about it as long as it's clear and not the milky "Green" stuff.

I've never been able to apply ARS w/o streaks on anything larger than about 8 ft^2, so 2 x 4'. That slab countertop I showed a picture of above was about 4' x 6'. I tried wiping it on first. Just couldn't do it. So that's when I added about 25% MS to it and applied it, generously, with a foam brush, much heaver than a wiped on coat would be. Cutting it with the MS and the heavier application gives it more time to flow out and level.

John

[Andrew Goraj]

You're right John. I decided to just finish it. If anything, it will build my confidence and be a good test for my technique for my next top. As I plan on going back to nicer wood species after this. Plus I'm too stubborn to quit. So I'm going to give it a go. Much more straight forward now. I'm going to switch to klean strip brand too then, just in case!