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Thread: Arm R Seal extremely cloudy/hazy

  1. #1

    Arm R Seal extremely cloudy/hazy

    Semi Gloss Arm R seal applied with a foam brush. Looks great when it's first applied and still wet. Crystal clear look to it. However, it dries looking like this. You can see the contrast of the dried areas next to the few areas that are still wet. This is my 4th application of it with a foam brush.

    Back ground.
    - This is poplar I attempted to finish dark. I sprayed water based transtint dye. I followed up with Enduro Clear poly.
    - Enduro clear poly was a disaster because I had my hose loose on my HVLP, AND my new Fuji gun was defective, Fuji agreed and is sending me a replacement gun. I wanted to get this top finished in meantime, so I sanded the top with 220, quite liberally. Waited 2 days.
    -Thinned the Semi Gloss ARM R Seal with 25% Mineral Spirits and brushed on with foam brush.

    This is truly a comedy of errors. I've been using hardwax oils on floors and furniture for most of my woodworking career. I'm really striking out trying to branch out into table tops with new finishes.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Andrew Goraj; 05-31-2018 at 8:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Well, this is how we learn!

    Did you mix the Arm R Seal properly? Are you noticing any adhesion issues?

  3. #3
    Stirred Arm R Seal with a paint stick. Mixed with 25% MS in a small plastic tray and applied. No adhesion issues. Just this really, really, dull and cloudy finish when dry.

  4. #4
    I thought it would eventually build, and stay transparent/clear. It goes on wonderfully and looks perfect. But every time I check it the next day, it dries to this awful matte cloudy appearance.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,648
    If it's clear when you apply a fresh coat, and you can see all the way down to the grain, then I think the wood is still thirsty and you just need to add more coats of ARS. What grit sandpaper did you stop at before you started your initial finishing process? Around 180 would have been a good place to be.

    John

  6. #6
    Interesting. Yes, it looks like crystal clear water right down to the grain with a fresh coat. And dries to this ugly opaque haze. I actually used 180 to sand down the clear poly, and I was pretty aggressive with the sanding. Just stopped short of hitting the dye, as far as I could tell. So maybe there is hope. I won't turn it into firewood quite yet. I'll apply another tonight then and update tomorrow. Thanks.

  7. #7
    I just thought of something. I used mineral spirits by SunnySide. They are considered "low odor." I checked the SDS sheet, it says 100% low odor mineral spirits. I was wondering if it could be cut with some other product to make it low odor that doesn't play well with the ARS.

  8. #8
    Low odor mineral spirits is mineral spirits.

    If there were an incompatibility then you would notice adhesion issues like a finish that does not brush out properly or that bubbles as it dries.

    I wonder if the flatteners are just settling and not distributed evenly.

    Before changing anything, I would use a test board and apply some of your diluted mix with your brush, and see if your results are different. That will tell you if it's the product or your surface that is the culprit.

  9. #9
    Gotcha. I'm stirring really,really well prior to application. Lot's of bubbles when wet, But they are gone once it dries.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,648
    If your MS are clear they are fine. It's the white stuff they claim to be low odor, environmentally friendly, or some other hogwash, you don't want to use.

    John

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
    Posts
    198
    It’s possible you are using too much MS. Try a coat undiluted or diluted with 10% MS and see if that works better.

  12. #12
    IMG_8087.jpgIMG_8088.jpgIMG_8089.jpgIMG_8090.jpg
    Im at my wits end here. I've applied 4 more coats with with a foam brush thinned 10 to 15% MS. When I first apply it looks great. Absolutely perfect. Nice even wet coat. These photos are NOT the dried look. These photos are taken After an hour after application, it begins to look like this and starts to dry in a streak fashion first. I presume the dry streaks are from where there was no overlap with the preceding row with the foam brush. After 10 hours it dries to an almost conpletely opaque matte finish. No streaks really. Just the whole thing is dull and cloudy. The whole table then Resembles the look of the dry spots you're seeing in the photo between the wet spots. But the whole table looks like that. Is this stuff just not building up? Specifically I weighed 80 grams of arm r seal and 8 grams of MS for each coat. I did this 4 times. I went through an entire quart of arm r seal now.

  13. #13
    Should I just go get some minwax poly? Would that be compatible after this dries and gets a scuff sand? I don't care if it looks like plastic. It's poplar stained dark for a friend. It's so far from having any grain or inherent beauty (in my eyes and from a purist stand point). So looking like plastic is fine. She just wants the table to look like it does, when it is still wet from the arm r seal.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    209
    This is definitely strange. I feel like you might have gotten a bad batch of the Arm R Seal. Have you tried calling General Finishes and explaining the situation to them? Have you tried putting it on a scrap to see if it's the varnish vs. your workpiece?

  15. #15
    Every time I talk to GF I get someone who is reading off a sheet of paper with canned replies to FAQ. Unforunately I ran out of ARS on this last application. So I'm going to have to order another quart. That's why I'm wondering if I can't just switch to poly from Home Depot, which should build a pretty quick layer of plastic on it? And retain the wet look. This table has been the most ridiculous roller coaster of a project. I normally hate even staining wood. I just keep it natural and use hard wax oils. This thing is a monstrosity. I hate to give up on it though, because she likes it if I can figure out what's happening here.

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