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Thread: I never found any value in the ruler trick for plane irons

  1. #61
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    All those chips would make a nice mountain range, perfect for angels to perch on.

  2. #62
    There are too many opinions here to satisfy with a quick answer.

    We have posts from those who don't like it on principle. Those who did it wrong, and those who don't understand it!
    Another group either use it successfully or are prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt.

    The RT produces an angle of approximately 2/3 of one degree on the flat side.
    This is done on an 8 or 10thousand grit polishing stone, mine never get wider than about 1.3 mm.
    The chipbreaker fits perfectly, as I give it approx. 1 1/2 degree of clearance angle, on the front u/s edge. (It can be set as close as Kato & Kawai suggest.

    Best wishes,
    David Charlesworth

  3. #63
    David,

    Thanks for the explanation - as I think critical details you list here are left out of what "Most people hear"... Certainly it includes details that are much different than what I was doing in the past and did not like....

    Using a thin 1/2mm or 1mm thick steel ruler to hit the back side of an iron on a 8,000-10,000 grit polishing stone... No doubt that's why it works for you...

    I was using approximately a 1/8" thick ruler on either P2,500 wet/dry paper or on my 3 micron DMT XXF diamond plate... Those are 3-5x more coarse than what you were using.. And probably 5x-10x the angle... Which is probably why my chip breaker wouldn't fit right....

  4. #64
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    I'm not smart enough to sort through all of the opinions stated above, but I do know a slight micro bevel on the back side of the iron
    creates superior results. I typically just very lightly hone the back side of the bevel.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by david charlesworth View Post
    There are too many opinions here to satisfy with a quick answer.

    We have posts from those who don't like it on principle. Those who did it wrong, and those who don't understand it!
    Another group either use it successfully or are prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt.

    The RT produces an angle of approximately 2/3 of one degree on the flat side.
    This is done on an 8 or 10thousand grit polishing stone, mine never get wider than about 1.3 mm.
    The chipbreaker fits perfectly, as I give it approx. 1 1/2 degree of clearance angle, on the front u/s edge. (It can be set as close as Kato & Kawai suggest.

    Best wishes,
    David Charlesworth

    David,

    I believe it was Plato that said "Opinions without knowledge are shameful and ugly things".

    I wish you had called it something other than a "trick" when you popularized the technique but it is what it is and thanks for showing how to do it.

    ken

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by david charlesworth View Post
    There are too many opinions here to satisfy with a quick answer.

    We have posts from those who don't like it on principle. Those who did it wrong, and those who don't understand it!
    Another group either use it successfully or are prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt.

    The RT produces an angle of approximately 2/3 of one degree on the flat side.
    This is done on an 8 or 10thousand grit polishing stone, mine never get wider than about 1.3 mm.
    The chipbreaker fits perfectly, as I give it approx. 1 1/2 degree of clearance angle, on the front u/s edge. (It can be set as close as Kato & Kawai suggest.

    Best wishes,
    David Charlesworth
    You are a gent. I am still interested in knowing which vendor under the sky hones its irons with your trick before they are sold.

    Simon

  7. #67
    Simon,

    None that I am aware of! Though the backs irons are quite variable from different manufacturers.

    David

  8. #68
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    So how does the ruler trick work with a cambered iron.

  9. #69
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    The ruler trick is used to get the burr off of the back side of and edge and create a bit of back bevel. I don't always do it, but I do hone the back side of the edge.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    So how does the ruler trick work with a cambered iron.
    Exactly as it does with a straight edge. It's a very shallow bevel that is not noticeably different from honing the blade flat on the stone. It really is a lot like pushing down harder near the edge with the blade flat to the stone, except that it does not stick. You are putting in a back bevel if you push down harder near the edge, and the ruler trick is maybe 2 or 3 times that bevel. Smaller than the back bevel you get if you strop the back on leather with abrasive, even if you are careful to not round over the back.

    The OP ran into a blade that had a back bevel that sounds like it was much more than the ruler trick would have given. Nobody is forcing you to use it if you don't want to. Even a much larger back bevel can be of use at times. Why are we still talking about this?

  11. #71
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    So how does the ruler trick work with a cambered iron.
    One can mimic a cambered iron by means of a partial 'ruler trick'.

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158373

    Honing of any kind including the ruler trick removes metal from the edge however slight an amount it may be. Ruler tricking only the edges in effect mimics cambering the bevel side.

    The amount of camber can be controlled by how much metal is removed from either side of the blade.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    So how does the ruler trick work with a cambered iron.
    Stewie, since the back of the iron is in one plane, or should be, and the ruler trick starts with the edge being off of the stone the whole edge is going to hit the stone at some point while pulling the iron back across the edge
    Jim

  13. #73
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    Thanks James.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Thanks James.
    You are welcome Stewie. I understand how the ruler trick works but I don't use it. I don't go to extremes flattening backs either. It is nice however that premium iron makers do such a good job of flattening backs.
    Jim

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